Job Discussion Forums

iamaglitterfairy · Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 2

I am an American planning on moving to Berlin in September. I have been teaching in Lisbon for the past year, and have really loved it. What's also been an added bonus is the fact that the employers here don't really seem to care if I am an EU citizen or not.

I've heard the Germany is much more strict on this, and am wondering if I will be able to find any work. I don't expect to work legally, freelance is fine, but would really like to hear some feedback from anyone else's experiences (especially non-EU citizens)!

In Portugal, it's considered a plus if you don't speak Portuguese. This way, you are forced to speak English in the classroom. Is this the same in Berlin?

I am scared that I am going to move to Berlin and be completely unable to find work! I have a CELTA (passed with Grade A) and have been teaching for a year. What do you think I should do? Go for it? any advice for me?

schminken · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:42 am Post subject:

It's hard to get by in a German-speaking country without speaking German. I don't think an employer would look at it as necessarily a plus.

I cannot tell you if you will be able to find a job in Berlin but I have heard from fellow teachers that the market is suaturated with people wanting to work there. I cannot fathom that you would be able to work illegally in Germany. The laws are so strict and the Fremdenpolizei seem able to find anyone, anywhere. I work in Austria and I am sure it is not exactly the same but I would think it would be similar. Here you have to register with the local authorities in your town within 3 days of arrival. I was once 1 hour late picking up my Aufenthaltstitel and the Fremdenpolizei immediately called me to find out why. Of course, you could not register. But these people are good. It's not like some southern European countries where you can bribe people to look the other way or whatever.

You should also be prepared to not make much money. Freelance is ok. But what will you do if you don't have enough students? Do you have a source of extra income? I am not trying to be condescending or anything. It's just reality. Language schools usually pay by the student. If students cancel on you, you do not get paid. So a school could say you have x amount of hours per month but thats only if all the students come. There are Fachhochschule, but you have to have a masters to work there. Berlin is expensive! Does anyone know about the possibility of working for Business English Trainers?

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

If you are illegal in Germany they will GET you. That is sure.
Now throw a temper tantrum and tell me I am negative.

iamaglitterfairy · Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 2

okay, you guys have got me sufficiently scared. so, if they are going to GET me if I am illegal, what exactly do I need to do to play by their rules?
can i just leave the country every three months?

what is the process i should undertake to make everything run smoothly?

schminken · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject:

You need both a residence permit and a work permit. Americans are allowed to enter Germany for 3 months and apply for a residence permit and work permit after entry. So you can at least come over and look for something and maybe you will get lucky.

You are allowed to stay for a period of 3 months every half-year without any kind of permit. This means technically you can't just leave Germany every 3 months and be ok. Do people do it and not get caught?Of course. However, this doesn't solve your work permit problem. You need a residence permit to get a work permit from the Arbeitsamt. You employer has to write a letter of intent and submit it to the employment office.

I do know some people who teach an occasional class at the local adult education center or work a few shifts in a pub and get paid in cash under the table. They also do private tutoring of students for their English school leaving exam. These people usually have an Austrian/German significant other or are married to an American who works legally and do not really need the extra 200 Euros it pulls in per month. They mooch off the SO.

Chris · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 2:31 pm Post subject: It is possible

Hi there,

I'm an American who is working LEGALLY as an EMPLOYEE in Karlsruhe, Germany. While it took forever to get the proper paperwork (the Arbeitsamt or Auslandersamt lost my paperwork and we had to restart the process--5 month's total wait!), I am now legally living and working here.

Now, I won't say it was easy to find this job. I am working on-site 40 hrs/week (that's including prep time and "on the job" --helping with English e-mails, phone calls, etc) for a global firm. It's a great job, but I have significant experience teaching business English as well as a business background.

I DO know it is possible for an American to work freelance legally--in fact, that is how most non-EU EFL teachers work here. As a previous poster mentioned, it's very difficult to live off a freelance pay. From what I've heard, Berlin is saturated, but it's really not as expensive to live in as say Frankfurt, Munich, Stuttgart, Hamburg, etc.

Do you have business experience? This is probably the most sought-after background. Most English here is taught to professionals. Are you willing to look at other parts of the country? I know of a great school in my area that is hiring for September.

Anyway, I hope some of this has helped you!

longtimeteach · Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 107

There is little chance of being able to get work in Berlin. As one person mentioned, it's a place where too many people want to teach English. To get a job offer without the permission to work or live here is quite difficult but do everything by the book - the penalty is harsh if you don't.

As for Karlsruhe, there are two places I know about:

1. Target Language School
2. ISL Sprachschule

Target is by far the best paid and they have the nicest people there. They both advertise on tefl.com when they've openings. Target wants a business background and ISL wants a German driving license and some German.

NRW area of Germany, where I am, is badly paid and usually only offers freelance work. That's a bit unsure and expensive to cover health insurance, pension contribution and taxes.

If you get a contract offer to work for a company in Germany, you can arrange to visit the Arbeitsamt, the Ausl�nderbeh�rde and the Einwohnermeldeamt to get the necessary permissions.

Dropping in without work and looking around, you'll only be allowed to stay 3 months and the chances of you cobbling together enough work to eat is slim because of:

1. no local contacts
2. no German language
3. depends on your teaching background
4. no permission to stay; no permission to work

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

There are jobs in Berlin but not many as English teachers. And remember that since 1 May 2004 the former "Reichshauptstadt", which is only an hour by car from the Polish border, will be flooded with cheap labour from the East.

The revenge of the "Ostarbeiter" !

As a Germanophile and frequent visitor to Germany I would advise people NOT to work illegally. The authorities are efficient and there are frequent raids to check on documents.

Chris · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 8:16 am Post subject:

Scot47--

Poles are forbidden to work in Germany legally for at least the first two years of their EU membership. This may be extended for up to 7 years, so it is possible that Poles won't be able to look for work here until 2011.

Conversely, Germans are forbidden to buy up land/houses in Poland. Some of my students here were seriously thinking about it because of the investment value, but they can't unless they have a Polish friend.

Anyway, this is an English teaching board... I doubt many Poles will be flooding the EFL market in Berlin.. Although I know of one Pole who teaches English in Hamburg...

Chris · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 8:29 am Post subject:

Target is the company I work for in Karlsruhe, but it's not actually a school. I have been placed as a full-time employee into a global firm here. They are headquartered in Offenbach.

As for ISL Sprachschule. The German language isn't a problem The guy who took over my job in Poland (I had to find a replacement) worked for them in Ettlingen (just outside of Karlsruhe). He is Canadian and spoke not a word of German. He completely recommends this school, and the owner apparently wanted him to stay. He left because his girlfriend is Polish still in Poland and they wanted to be together again.

As for the driver's license, Americans can drive legally on theirs for the first 6 months, but then must apply for a German one after that or extend it for up to 364 days. Look on the US Consulate in Frankfurt's website for the states in which you can just replace your license with a German one. For some states you have to take the driving test over again. I'm lucky that Wisconsin can just exchange it.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

My point was that there are OTHER jobs in Berlin. If being in Berlin is a priority you could find a job doing something else.

I did not say that E Europeans would be taking over EFL jobs.

Chris · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:27 pm Post subject:

True, true.. I stand corrected. But regardless, Poles can't legally work in Germany, unless they are sponsored by a company like I was.

longtimeteach · Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 107

Chris,

To clarify your information:

Americans can drive legally in Germany with an International driving license BUT, one you register yourself at a residence in Germany, your international license becomes immediately invalid.

Do have your German driving license in place before that happens because if you're stopped by the police and they also check your paper from the Einwohnanmeldamt and the dates don't mesh, you are in trouble. Cough up the Euros...

There are, presently, about 8 US states' driving licenses which are not accepted by Germany. If yours is one of them then you will have to attend a Fahrschule, taking the written AND driving exam. The written exam can be taken in English but, unfortunately, your driving examiner will probably be speaking to you in German.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

"The written exam can be taken in English but, unfortunately, your driving examiner will probably be speaking to you in German."

To function in Germany you need at least a basci command of German. Would you be able to function in the US without a minimal ability in English
(or Spanish) ?

So is it naivety or arrogance that makes people think they can go and live in Germany without knowing German ?

And if you assume that English is so widely known in Germany whate does that tell you about the effective demand for EFL teachers there ? You assume that everyone speaks English but you want to go there and teach them ?

longtimeteach · Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 107

I speak, read and write German so none of that is any problem for me.

I said "unfortunately your driving examiner will probably be speaking in German" as a sort of 'tongue in cheek' reminder that people who want to live and work here in Germany shouldn't be so arrogant as to think that they can (or should!) get by in English.

Native English speakers tend to be fairly arrogant about language and that's a shame - gives us all a bad name. We need to understand that, in Germany, German is the language and learn it or perish!

Some years ago, the American company WalMart bought out the German Interspar. When all the American executives were in place they made a big show of taking German classes. They found that too difficult, after a couple of months, and abandoned the classes. They decided that the employees could speak English.

Very poor attitude. Why should we 'expect' them to speak English to us when we're living and working in their country? And, doesn't it show a lack of respect that many native English speakers don't even try?