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oipivo
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 163 Location: Poland
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: Rental Agreements |
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Hey guys,
Just wanted to give a reminder to everyone to read their rental agreement throughly. If your landlord is says makes statements about the apartment, be 100 % sure that it is in the contract. Find someone Polish to help you. Hell, pay someone to read it for you and make sure it looks good.
I genuinely like my landlord and he has been quite helpful. Unfortunately, my wife and I decided to relocate and needed to terminate our contract early. When we moved in, our landlord stated that giving him two months notice is enough is we want to leave early. He also re-stated this when we resigned for another 12 months. We didn't double check that this was actually written in the agreement and now we're paying for it. I gave him three months and we've come to an agreement, but it is FAR from ideal.
He also slipped in something about the tenant having to pay to repaint the apartment. This was another unpleasant revelation and when he was showing us the contract never once mentioned this fact.
Be careful! Make sure that someone Polish is helping you. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006 Posts: 1202 Location: Colorado, USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to hear you got hosed, oipivo.
I've heard before that if a foreigner signs a contract written only in Polish, it is not valid and the contract is not binding. There must be a copy translated into English (or other native language) for the foreigner to sign.
I've never had to put this to the test, but you might try telling your landlord this, especially since he was not upfront with you about these hidden costs. |
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oipivo
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 163 Location: Poland
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm...that's pretty interesting. I have a lawyer student I can email about that. I'll look into it. Thanks! |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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That painting clause has become pretty ubiquitous in the region - it's pretty common here in the CR too. I resent it; just because a few piggy expats messed a place up, landlords feel free to hose the rest of us on principle.
Thankfully, I don't have to rent from a stranger, having family with flats, but I know lots of people who've been taken this way. |
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dragonpiwo
Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 1650 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:16 am Post subject: erm |
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In Poland the painting thing isn't just for or because of piggy expats, rather it's quite common.
One landlady told me she wanted the flat painted because of a tiny tyre mark on one wall. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011 Posts: 674
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Master Shake wrote: |
Sorry to hear you got hosed, oipivo.
I've heard before that if a foreigner signs a contract written only in Polish, it is not valid and the contract is not binding. There must be a copy translated into English (or other native language) for the foreigner to sign.
I've never had to put this to the test, but you might try telling your landlord this, especially since he was not upfront with you about these hidden costs. |
I *think* this is a myth. I don't recall the details, but I seem to recall that the deal is that a contract can be valid in any language as long as both parties agree that it's valid. So if someone presents you with a contract in Polish and you sign it, then you can't use the language barrier as an excuse.
Likewise, if you sign the contract in English with someone, then it's perfectly valid.
I know that some people have got out of contracts/etc with that, but that might be simply companies not wanting to risk the legal system and the strange behaviour of judges.
For what it's worth, it does seem to be pretty common in Poland to have the place repainted after you leave.
But this is sound advice - always get a local to check things over, and never, ever, ever take a Pole at face value |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 899 Location: Gdansk, Poland
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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More likely is that they do no want the contract seen by the judge where it might find its way to the tax office. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006 Posts: 1202 Location: Colorado, USA
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:14 am Post subject: |
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ecocks wrote: |
More likely is that they do no want the contract seen by the judge where it might find its way to the tax office. |
Definitely. Loads of Polish landlords don't pay tax on rent they collect, which is illegal. One landlady I had even refused to let me zameldowac (register) in my rented flat because she thought this would tip off the tax office (eventually, she changed her mind).
I lived in 4 flats in Poland and never had to pay to have them repainted. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013 Posts: 1364 Location: Flying around the ME...
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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So tell him you're going to check with the tax people if he's been declaring his income.....see if he changes his ways then! |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Can I assume that Polish landlords are all crooks ? |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011 Posts: 674
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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scot47 wrote: |
Can I assume that Polish landlords are all crooks ? |
Not all of them are, but most problems are caused by landlords who want to be professional on one hand, but then they don't want to pay tax on the other hand.
What I'm told is the most reliable way forward is to ask the landlord for official receipts because the Urzad Skarbowy (tax office) has questioned your financial affairs. They tend to go white in the face then |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 899 Location: Gdansk, Poland
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Several of us, myself included had no problem with our landlords. As happens most often you hear about the bad ones but the normal ones are not noteworthy. |
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simon_porter00
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 505 Location: Warsaw, Poland
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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This is not a question of anyone being 'hosed' or a dodgy landlord, just someone not reading the contract. The landlord has no obligation to tell you everything in the contract - as an adult you should be aware of what you're signing.
As to the suggestion that a foreigner signing a polish contract and then the contract not being valid .... Utter bollocks. By law, unless specified otherwise in the contract, the Polish contract will prevail over the foreign language contract. If the contract is only in Polish it therefore follows it must be binding. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011 Posts: 674
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Simon, have you seen any contracts where the English has differed to the Polish?
I was presented with one once, and a quick scan of the Polish showed some clauses that didn't seem to be in the English version. I asked the guy exactly what he thought he was playing at, and I got a stammered 'err..natives don't check the Polish version normally' reply. |
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NilSatis82
Joined: 03 May 2009 Posts: 110
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:25 am Post subject: |
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simon_porter00 wrote: |
This is not a question of anyone being 'hosed' or a dodgy landlord, just someone not reading the contract. The landlord has no obligation to tell you everything in the contract - as an adult you should be aware of what you're signing. |
I agree to an extent but it also depends on what laws exist in Poland relating to what you can and can't include in a contract. For example, in the UK landlords can only deduct money from your deposit for normal 'wear and tear'. So, unless you've scuffed or made holes in the wall, significantly damaged the paintwork, etc. then landlords are legally prevented from charging you to repaint the walls. Not sure about the law in Poland but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a similar law. |
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