Job Discussion Forums

[Jefe]

Hi everyone.

I am going to Asia in early 2017 to finish my BA online and teach part time. Then, work on my MA.

I love travel and have been overseas 16yrs. Am thinking of going to Cambodia first, finish my BA, then to Vietnam to again, work PT and finish my degree. Sounds like a good spot to do the CELTA after the MA as well.

Will Cambodia look bad on a CV in Vietnam? My understanding is that it's a fairly easy market.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.


Jefe

[nomad soul]

Do the CELTA before the BA.

[kurtz]

Firstly, you don't mention working in Cambodia, but I have to assume you are. If you are worried about having some crappy school on your CV from Cambodia, why go there in the first place?

You'd be working in a school that doesn't require a CELTA, so I would not really want that on my CV, either. Even though I don't work in HR, I would want to see experience post CELTA in a reputable schhol.

Secondly, you talk about working PT in Vietnam and then doing your CELTA, so, again; you'd be working in a school that doesn't require a CELTA as well. IMHO that would be as bad as working for a similar school in Cambodia.

What are you doing your BA and MA in?

Sorry, but your post comes across as a little odd.

[ExpatLuke]

As the Recruitment Manager at my current school, I don't think it's going to negatively effect your resume in anyway. Experience in general is a plus, as long as it's with the target age group a school is hiring for. Cambodia is also a part of SE Asia so a lot of the cultural experience you get will be transferable to Vietnam.

Getting experience post-CELTA is generally better, but in my personal opinion, getting extra TESOL training after you've taught and actually been in a classroom is much more helpful than trying to understand theories and methodologies you've never experienced before.

Any school that turns its nose up at you for teaching in a school in Cambodia that doesn't require a CELTA is a school you'll want to stay away from anyways.

[Jefe]

Thank you for your feedback Luke.

FYI, I am on my GI Bill and they won't pay for CELTA. So, I plan to get my BA/PT work and MA/PT work. After working and saving, then I can do the CELTA if needed. I have done a TESOL in business online which cant hurt for an entry level position at a language center.

I also am a certified military instructor (that's a one month long course) and giving classes was a part of being an NCO whether you were a certified instructor or not. I instructed at Officer Candidate School and several others. I wound up retiring from the reserves and towards the end, wrote/taught cultural training, some of which became doctrine for the US military. Having said that, I haven't run/taught a class for over 5 years, so I would feel much better getting some refresher training before going to a corporate environment. And as you mention, some cultural cross over is not going to hurt. I instructed foreign militaries/police for around 10yrs, but also did corporate training. The two actually mix better than one might think.

As a civilian, I was in mid-upper level management in a few multi-national corporations (Fortune 500/100). I have lived abroad for going on to 17 years now. I expect that should help me get work in business English positions.

I appreciate you taking the time to give constructive feedback. I have seen your other posts on some of the threads and appreciate/respect them.

I am leaning towards Cambodia to head to next (currently in Latin America).

I am done with 18hr days. But, I need something in retirement to keep me busy.

Thank you again Luke. I hope to keep a dialogue open with you. I most certainly will grab you a meal and a beer if we cross paths, which sounds likely!

All the Best,


Jefe

[nomad soul]

[kurtz]

[ExpatLuke]

[kurtz]

Language Link Vietnam
ILA
APOLLO
International House

The above (perhaps there are more) either require a CELTA/Trinity or prefer one. A 120 hour course with the minimum observed practicum will do for those that will settle for a teacher without the CELTA etc.

The good schools like ACET and RMIT require post CELTA experience of at least 1-2 years.

This can all be verified on their job adds.

Here is one example:

To work at ILA Vietnam, teachers need:
1) A university degree: This must be a 3 year bachelor degree or higher
2) To be a native level English speaker
3) A qualification in English Language Teaching (CELTA or Trinity Cert.TESOL preferred)
Your certification must be from a recognised provider and have a minimum of 120 hours
Due to government regulations regarding work permits you will need to provide:
Your BA degree and a fully legalised copy
Your CELTA/TEFL certificate
A clean police clearance certificate from your home country and a fully legalised copy.




Not true regarding management and higher level jobs. I have only worked for schools giving a legit work permit and working visa. I have been strongly encouraged to apply for academic management or HR positions at three of the schools I have worked at. Doors open if you have some experience and work hard. More doors open with a Delta or equivalent.

[ExpatLuke]

Nah, they don't. I have contacts who work management at all of those places. They may say they prefer that in their ads, but they hire anyone who meets the minimum legal work requirements and fits the experience window they're looking for.

I have friends who are currently working at a few of those places who have only online certificates which didn't include teaching practicum. Experience generally can trump the name on you 4 week certificate.

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[kurtz]

[1st Sgt Welsh]

Hi kurtz,

Sure, no two ways about it, experience helps. If two almost identical applicants apply for the same job and the only difference between them is that one has experience and the other doesn't, then, obviously, the experienced one would be in the better position. If it's a school that doesn't want experienced applicants then, IMHO, it's usually not a school worth working for. However, for example, if the inexperienced applicant performs very well in interviews and the experienced applicant doesn't then it's not that cut and dry.

Employers value experience, but, I think most of the good ones know that it's not everything and they are just after the best applicant they can get. Besides, I have come across more than a few 'very experienced' TEFLers who were complete muppets . I'm sure a lot of us have. Anyway, like I said, I got my foot in the door with ACET without experience and I know others who did the same with RMIT (providing they had a CELTA Pass A). Could I/they do it now in the current Vietnamese TEFL employment market? Beats me, but, then again, there is no harm in trying.

[ExpatLuke]

Kurtz, you don't seem to be getting it. A job ad lists the minimum qualifications as an advance filtering system. But those are not the minimum requirements to land the job. A multitude of other factors can go into that, such as who you know, who your references are, how well you can sell yourself on your CV or in your interview, how much experience you have, and how much the school needs to fill.the position.

I don't know about you, but I always would apply to positions which I didn't meet the minimum requirements when I first started teaching, and I often got call backs or job offers.

I do commend you for blindly thinking that those job ads which you quoted are set in stone requirements. I'm sure you've made many recruiter's jobs easier. But surely you cant be naive enough to think 6 hours of observed teaching would trump multiple years of experience. Especially to a career path recruitment manager who likely has multiple degrees in language and education... At the end of the day, to someone like that, a CELTA won't make much of a difference.

[Jefe]

Decisions made guys. Cambodia first. I am only looking for 10hrs of work a week max anyways while I finish school Nice to be retired!

I appreciate constructive/positive info. Would/will be happy to buy either one of you a beer/chow if we cross paths.