Job Discussion Forums

[Emdii]

Hello,

Does anyone have information on the Lawrence S.Ting School in HCMC? (I did a search with no results.) Things like work environment, mgmt support of teachers, typical students, etc.

I've not taught in Vietnam, so anything is appreciated.

TIA!

[sigmoid]

Don't have any knowledge of them but here's this from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_S._Ting_Memorial_School

[Emdii]

I've already had a look at the Wikipedia page and their website. Just wondering if anyone out there had some personal experience to add to it.

[mark_in_saigon]

I've already had a look at the Wikipedia page and their website, which I forgot to mention or link in my first post. Still, Sigmoid, thank you so much for your help and taking the time to respond.

I know that often people (dare we say teachers?) just post and bluntly ask for info without showing any courtesy, and after they find what they seek, then never come back and share the info for others. I apologize if I came off as ungrateful.

[sigmoid]

[Emdii]

I apologize for not thanking you for your efforts. I responded as I would in a conversation, not thinking others would assume a negative tone to my reply.

I've often heard that Vietnamese students are studious and well-behaved, even the teenagers. Just a stereotype then?

Thank you in advance,

Emdii

[mark_in_saigon]

That was then and this is now. Students can be fine once they are learning as adults. Adolescents are a different matter. Plus, this school in question is likely for the kids from the richest families, not the most cultured, but the richest. To get a clue as to how this group acts, watch the people who drive cars here, then imagine what lessons their children take from this behavior and mold into their own little personalities. Yeah.

If you have never been here, imagine the affluent Chinese, they are a pretty close analog, and there is plenty of info on them worldwide. Everyone's favorite group!

I am constantly struck by how folks who come over for the first time are wondering about a particular granular detail, when that detail is going to be a small concern in real life. Like coming over for any one school, come on, it is all pot luck. You come over if this is the place you want to live here, then TRY to fit yourself around whatever life dishes out for you here. You cannot count on any one school being important to your life. It does not work that way, or if it does, it is not the usual scenario. Your first attempt may not hire you, you may not like them, you may find something a lot better, you may bounce from school to school, you may find more hours and a higher rate elsewhere but need to move to the other side of town to be close to it. Who knows what all can happen? In my view, you come over here for a specific reason relating to wanting something here, or wanting to get away from something there. You work if you need income. Pollyanna gave up and went home a while back. For folks moving across the world just because they want to teach, there has to be somewhere more professional and serious than VN. I think most of our best guys usually give up and move to the middle east.

[sigmoid]

[Emdii]

I would be looking to teach adults, not kids. I have an MA in TESOL, spent a year in Saudi Arabia paying off, and shan't be going back.

I personally wouldn't classify the teaching experience as a granular detail. For me, it was the worst part of Saudi Arabia. I realize that if I move to HCMC, I may switch schools to find the right fit. I'm just trying to get a general feel for the place, which admittedly can vary widely from person to person.

My husband worked in Hanoi before I met him and HATED it- traffic, commuting to different campuses, pollution, etc. In fact, I've heard very little that is good about Hanoi from the people I've worked with. Would you say HCMC is just as bad?

Edutainment? Shoot me.

[mark_in_saigon]

My comment about "granular detail" is like worrying about a particular school, in this example. The chance that a particular school you have never set foot in is going to be important to your life is rather small. A granular detail. Instead, what matters is if the overall "teaching" scene is something that you are really going to want to stick with. I think it is pretty unusual for someone to come here and then leave just because Lawrence Ting or some school did not live up to their expectations. The real reasons people should come and stay, or never come, are much bigger issues. The rude behavior of drivers (which makes it quite dangerous), the terrible pollution (health problems), the nature of the food (not too bad, getting better, but you never really know what you are eating unless you pay western prices), the disappointment from seeing that the culture has been substantially degraded over the last few decades, and is increasingly getting worse. The general nature of the schools, which has been widely discussed on this site. To me, those are the big issues, I might have missed a few, maybe the constant heat in the south. The burning of garbage can be an issue, depends on where you live. Ah yes, the lack of dedicated sidewalks. Service standards.

I do not imply there is nothing good about life here. I have added it up, and for me, the good outweighs the bad. But I would also say that for most folks just arriving, they have to be here the better part of a year before they get smoothed out. Housing, employment, driving, location, the food, all these things usually start off as difficulties and take time to get under control. I would just say again, as before, folks asking about a particular granular detail do not seem to understand that the big picture is what is going to make or break their deal here, not a particular thing like what form of certificate or a specific school, or even a particular city. It is such a mess, you have to accept this kind of messy system and be willing to adapt your life to it, eventually find what works for you, and understand that there are always going to be these problems that cannot be overcome (like the pollution or the rudeness). We cannot change them, we cannot fix their system. So, are the rewards big enough for you to accept all of this?

And, we might as well be honest about it. For a lot of young "teachers", one of the great benefits is cheap booze and tobacco, plus a much more welcoming culture for using those products. And, younger and older alike, there is a reason that most of the "teachers" are male. They have relationship opportunities here that they could only dream of back home. Love it or hate it, this is a very big factor in what is going on over here.

I do not find HN better or worse than HCMC, from the big picture perspective. It surely is different, which makes it interesting. You just have to adapt your life to wherever you end up. I like the change of the seasons up there, to be honest. If living in HN, I prefer to be on the edges, not the center. HCMC is not quite so bad in the center, as you can still get around here. In HN, roads are worse, and there are more cars per capita (correct me if I am wrong guys), anyway, traffic is more hellish in the central areas of HN. HN is more Chinese style, so the rudeness and lying and overcharging is worse there, but you have to accept that kind of thing anyway, it is just a matter of degree. In the north, you build relationships with businesses you like, then you can get a decent price. It takes time.

You move to VN for a reason, you feel you will do better financially here, you want to be here for some real reason (boozing, relationships, evading your ex wife, whatever), then you gradually find the location and job that works out for you. Or, better yet, if you do not need their income, you can really do well. Costs can still be quite low outside of the big cities, and you can have a fine old time at about 1/4th of the cost of a life back home, plus the opportunities that are unobtainable back there.

[Emdii]

[ExpatLuke]

I wouldn't trust the overly negative comments on here. The bottom line is that, yes, most of the EFL industry in Vietnam is geared towards the backpacker types looking to fund their travels around the world, BUT if you are at the top of your field, hold degrees in Language teaching, and are looking for something serious where you can make a difference, then there are options for that as well.

You just have to look and be prepared to climb the ladder. These best jobs don't always go to newbies to the country, but sometimes you can get lucky. Personally speaking, I've had both my worst and best teaching experiences of my life in Vietnam. In my time here, I've managed to build a successful career completely in EFL.

A lot of people don't have my luck or patience, and leave. Most of the people who post on these forums actually don't live in Vietnam any longer.

That said, if you're coming here with a full opinion of yourself or have very strong beliefs on just what education is supposed to look like, you will not last long.

[Brunouno]

[Mattingly]

[ExpatLuke]