Job Discussion Forums

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I am headed off again to Saudi and nearly 56 years old. Excited about it. Been there before with different employers. It IS important to get a reasonable employer. That is true anywhere but ESPECIALLY in Saudi where your employer has more power over you.

To those who have NOT been in Saudi let me say this : do not fall for the BS you may hear. Saudi is an interesting and welcoming country. Of course you may have negative experiences but for me it has always been on the whole a positive experience.

Think about but remember to do the research on your future employer. And remember that you are headed there for some specific goal !!!

Mine this time is to get a NEW car !!!!

Sunpower · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 256 Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

Scot 47:

I agree. I've never taught in the Middle East but I also try to apply the same thinking while working and living in Asia.

Without having some kind of goal - Studying Judo, taking Chinese lessons, travelling, etc, etc - I see a lot of teachers spin out, so to speak.

I also agree with you about being on the road so much - I teach. I like it some days I hate it but over all, so far, it's been pretty good.

Living in Asia has given me a lot more opportunities for travel, meeting nice people, learning languages and watching my bank account accumulate than living in Canada would have.

Having the right perspective is definitely important if you plan on having this type of lifestyle for any length of time.

Good luck with your new position!

bnix · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 645

Yeah,I certainly agree with Scot on at least one thing...if you must go to Saudi...try to get a reasonable employer.This is not always that easy...especially for people who have not been there before and do not"know the ropes'.If you get the wrong employer in some place like Taiwan or Korea,you can just pull a runner.In Saudi,it is usually not that easy....since your employers hold your passport(and they give you one of those iqama things like another poster mentioned).Also,you need an exit visa to LEAVE Saudi.Therefore,if you get a bad employer...it can be pure hell on earth.Of course,there is a little trick with the passport some Saudi vets pull.but I will not go into that one right now....Like he said...do your research...check anything out carefully...look at the Job Journal Forum on Dave's under Saudi..

Scot says Saudi is a "welcoming country"(?).Well,Scot,I have taught there too,and I can hardly agree with you on that one.I hope your experience there is great,though,and has a minimum of difficulties. Smile

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I suppose experiences here in KSA are all different and I have heard that Riyadh is a touch xenophobic.

However MY experiences have been overwhelmingly positive. And they go back a long time.

Even now with the Dogs of War about to be unleashed, I am happy to be here.

Dave Kessel · Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Posts: 49

Saudi Arabia is a closed country. Hard to get in and hard to get out. So, you need to choose a good employer-Aramco, Raytheon, etc. Your passport will be taken away but if you have an emergency, you can always go home. If you want to quit, you normally need to give a one month notice. Then, it is no problem.

This place is not for everybody. However, the possibility of you getting stuck here without a passport is not really that great. Normally people just finidh the contract and then, go home. And if they need to leave, normally, they can leave.

Ajarn Miguk · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 227 Location: TDY As Assigned

They keep your passport? "...normally, you can leave?"

Are you serious?

omar805 · Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Posts: 69 Location: Thailand

That's always been one thing that's put me off working in Saudi - that your passport is taken away by your employers.
Was it last year that we read in this forum where a teacher who was working in Saudi had to get home in a hurry due to a family emergency (I think his father had a heart attack and subsequently died), and he couldn't get his passport? It was either lost or no-one could locate someone who knew where the passports were kept.
I've always thought that it was illegal or against the laws of your own country, to hand over your passport and have it kept by another person or organisation?

johnslat · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 3:21 am Post subject: Passport control

Dear omar805,
It may be " against the laws of your own country " ( I'm not really sure on that, although the USA embassy here doesn't seem to be " protesting " this " violation ", if indeed it is one ), but when you're here, you have to go by the laws of THIS country. Yup, you still have to turn in your passport and get an " iquama " ( identity card ), although, a while back, it was mentioned in the English language Arab News that this was supposed to change, among " higher-level " employees, anyway. But, as so often happens here, the topic dropped out of sight and, so far, hasn't resurfaced. But, since you can't get out of this place wthout first getting an " exit visa ", anyway, not having one's passport doesn't seem very important. BUT it does ( as always ) depend on who your employer is. If you're working for some private company with an unscrupulous boss, well, that could be bad news. And regarding the " emergency situations ", again, it can take a few days ( or more ) to get an exit visa - unless you have a lot of wasta. We had two cases this year - a non-native speaker whose Mom was sick. He got his exit visa and passport FAST, in a day, I think it was. And a Canadian whose Mom died - he was told it'd take a week or two. Hmm, wonder why there was such a difference?
Regards,
John

Ajarn Miguk · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 227 Location: TDY As Assigned

Do Saudi citizens resident in the U.S. have to give up their Saudi passports? If not, why not?

As for "going by the laws of THIS country," it's a good enough reason not to be in "THIS country."

johnslat · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 2:58 pm Post subject: Differences

Dear Ajarn Miguk,
" As for "going by the laws of THIS country," it's a good enough reason not to be in "THIS country."
Well, about 40,000 American and around 30,000 British ex-pats don't agree with you. But, of course, everyone has to decide for him/herself.
I don't know how many other countries you've lived/taught in, but in my experience, in a good number of them you will find laws, traditions, customs that are different than they are in the USA - although, I admit that Saudi Arabia is very different. So, you find out as much as you can about a place before you decide to go there and, if you think you can't cope with the differences, you don't go. That being said, since you feel as you do about Saudi Arabia and apparently have no intention of living/working here, I wonder why you even bother to visit this forum.
Regards,
John

Ajarn Miguk · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 227 Location: TDY As Assigned

To read your comments, John. So do Saudis resident in the US have to give up their passports?

johnslat · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:29 am Post subject: It's their ballpark

Dear Ajarn Miguk,
Ah well - could there be a better reason? Nope, as far as I know, Saudis don't have to give up their passports when they enter the States. Nobody does there; everybody does here. That's the way it is. Countries get to make their own rules about such stuff and, while I think it's silly that they take our passports, I knew that would be the case before I arrived. When you travel around the globe making your living, you have to accept the fact that places have different rules and regulations. If you're not willing to live with them, then it's simple - you don't go there. Giving up my passport doesn't bother me at all; I can't get out of here anyway without an exit visa, so what good would my passport do me? It's their ballpark; they get to make all the rules. If those rules upset you, then you go somewhere else or stay home. That's how it works.
Regards,
John

Ajarn Miguk · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 227 Location: TDY As Assigned

Understand what you are saying, but I do wonder what the reaction would be if the same thing were applied to the Saudis resident in the US? Do you think you would hear the word, "discrimination?"

By the way, I completely agree with you relative to checking a place out and then deciding to agree or not agree to go along with the program there.

My problem is the double standard in place here.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Handing over the passport applies to ALL foreigners in Saudi Arabia. Are you suggesting US citizens should be exempt from rules that apply universally within Saudi Arabia ? You may not like this but Saudi Arabia is an independent country and makes the rules about what happens here. I find some of these rules silly and some really annoying. But I am playing their game, on their turf. They make the rules, and they choose the referee. That is the way it is.

When we are away from our home base we have to accept we are playing a different game with different rules. If you want to play baseball, don't sign up for rugby !!!!!

johnslat · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:28 am Post subject: The standard is double

Dear Ajarn Miguk,
Oh my - the " double-standard " IS the standard here, in so many respects. Saudis will raise the roof if Moslems anywhere else in the world are hindered in any respect in the practice of their religion. But, of course, here NO other religion can be practiced. However, comparing the USA - a democratic republic - with the Kingdom - a theocratic monarchy - is like comparing apples with, say, icebergs. Hear the word " discrimination "? My word - we already hear that word here, again and again. The local press is full of stories about how poor, innocent Saudis in the States are being harassed and discriminated against. Some of that might even be true.
Regards,
John