Job Discussion Forums

[ace9415]

I've spent the last 6 months trying to put together a move from Seattle, WA, to Berlin. I've been reading many message boards, like this one, trying to get some more information about teaching English in Germany (I'm a successful music teacher here in Seattle).

In a nut shell, I'm massively discouraged by what I read. All anyone does in these forums is complain about the bad pay, the taxes and pension requirements, the bureaucracy, the bad pay, being used by employers, bad pay, bad hours, and bad pay. In one article I read, the interviewee, a British teacher in Munich, just laughed when asked "what are the benefits of teaching ELS in Germany?", and said there were none.

Is this the truth of teaching English in Germany? or are only the bitter and jaded posting on these sites? I'm thinking teaching music (or doing light construction, which is my other main job) is going to be a better way to go, and just find some way to freelance with each of those jobs.

Any input or advice anyone has would be most welcome.

Vielen Dank,
Sean Barker
Seattle, WA

[spiral78]

Firstly, as you've been doing prior research, you are probably aware that non-EU citizens are nearly never (99%) able to swing legal work permits to teach English in Germany. I've been in contact over the past couple of years with US citizens who had lived in Germany previously, with extensive local contacts and fluent German, but when the laws against hiring non-EU citizens were tightened a couple of years ago, even these well-connected, experienced teachers were forced to move on.

Secondly, yes, the bureaucracy is immense - and tight. The economy's slowly improving, I think, but it's not strong. Pay for teachers in private language schools is relatively low, considering that expats will pay generally more in housing costs than locals.

(There's a fallacy in the EFL biz in general that '"...if I'm making as much as most of the locals, I should be able to afford to live the way they do..." - in that, most locals either own housing, and have for many years, or live in rent-controlled situations not available to foreigners.)

Uni jobs will present similar problems, assuming that you're a non-EU citizen - and they usually require significant qualifications and experience.

However, IF you're a certified music teacher in US public schools, you might be able to land a gig at an international school. This is one of the very few situations where not being an EU member citizen isn't a barrier. However, there aren't an abundance of job openings, and you really have to have experience and credentials from your home country's public school system to even be considered.

[smoofy]

I don't have much advice to offer here as I am currently in the same boat- trying to get to Berlin as an experienced English teacher in the states, certified, ready to go, but worried about the job situation. I HAVE however used Dave's before and so I can tell you that before I moved to Korea I heard nothing but horror stories on the boards too, so I *do* think people are a bit jaded. That said, I have verified a lot of what I've heard with friends in Germany- that it is ridiculously hard to land a job teaching ESL in Berlin because they'd much rather choose someone from the EU (for example: the English) and not have to deal with the visa stuff. There are a few select schools where they prefer american accents, but those are few and far between and they still require fluency in German in most cases. I'd say as a music teacher and construction worker you'd likely be able to pull something together, but getting a work permit for teaching music doesn't entitle you to use the same permit for construction, so you might have to get both jobs cleared by the German government, which may be tricky.

At any rate, I would say don't be discouraged!!! People are always negative when it comes to the educational job market, regardless of the country. It's a pretty negative situation in most cases. However, if you really want to do what you love, and you work at it long enough (send out enough resumes, hunt for jobs, make some connections in Germany) I think you can find a way. I will now accept comments from the torents of angry Davers who will tell me I'm that I'm naive, will never amount to anything, and should just die die die in the streets. You may begin.

[spiral78]

Don't die on the street, but instead try researching German hiring laws as they relate to English teachers (specifically non-EU).

It's not 'pessimism' or anything other than the fact that people on the forum ask for realistic info and that's what we have to offer.

If you find some loophole that we who have been here on the ground long term have not run across before, we will be all ears. But it has to be something specific and concrete. Not just wishes.

I'll be all ears.

[spiral78]

Big diff - Korea vs. Germany: yanks can work legally in Korea. It's honestly pretty black-and-white.

[ace9415]

Thanks spiral78, I can read your other 1700 posts for more of your experience, hopefully I can get some other perspectives as well. Already some others have written to me, thanks to you and to them. Facts may be facts, but our perceptions of them are our own, and that's where pessimism enters the equation. I'm curious to see what other people have experienced.

Also, anyone have any information on teaching music in Berlin? Still trying to find a forum on that issue...

Thanks!
-S

[smoofy]

[smoofy]

[spiral78]

The Germany Embassy website in Washington, DC.
Specifically, the section that relates to English teaching.

Sorry. I've been there. I am an EU member citizen, through marraige to a Czech national. I am up for dual US/Czech citizenship in Jan 2008. I have 10 years experience in the field, and an MA TESL/TEFL + 6 years teaching in Dutch and Canadian universities.

I can't get a legal job in Germany. I have researched the situation extensively. Honestly, I am not throwing sour grapes. I know quite a lot (not 100%, but 90%) about what I'm saying.

[ace9415]

A good point, smoofy, some posts are helpful and some aren't, usually dependent on whether the "how, when, why" type questions are answered, just as you say. I'm still waiting for some of those questions to be answered.

Spiral, I'm confused; you're an EU citizen but can't get a legal job in teaching on Germany, yet others are doing just that all the time, unless every other person posting here (that has landed a job) is working illegally. There's obviously SOME way of getting a job there, and it's that process and the details of that process that I'm interested in. Obsfucation doesn't help anyone, and begs the title of "forum troll".

Also, where is the section on teaching English on the Embassy web site? I've been searching the site and can find no section giving specific information on ESL teaching, only on employment in general.

I'd rather this thread be a list of helpful information and advice for putting a move to Germany together, not a laundry list of pessimism. Thanks.

[spiral78]

I'll try to be crystal-clear, and then bow out of this one.

First, it's not an issue of a tight job market. I could find a job offer in Germany, and go exactly as far as Shaytess has gone. Then, I'd be told that work permits cannot be issued to me because of my nationality.

German federal law at the moment limits hiring of English teachers to citizens of the 'old' EU member states: this includes Britain, obviously, but not the Czech Republic, through which I have EU citizenship. The laws are different in every country, and Germany currently does not hire either US, Canadian, or Czech citizens to teach English. If I were an engineer, I could work there legally as a Czech citizen.

As an English teacher, I cannot currently get legal working papers either as a US or as a Czech citizen.

I can work legally in the Netherlands as a Czech citizen, though the national laws of that country 100% rule out any chance of a US citizen teaching English there.

I am sorry I cannot give you website directions. I have not lived in the States for more than ten years and I get my updated info directly through German contacts who are friends. It is an issue that I make sure to be updated on regularly as I have contacts and a potential job offer at a German university where I would very much like to work if the law changes.

I cannot tell you how to 'put together a move' to Germany. It would be the same for France, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Greece. The 'old' EU member countries have federal laws requiring English teachers to have EU citizenship - usually limited to those from other 'old' EU member states, as versus the Czech Rep, Poland, and etc.

I suggest that you scan through the France forum and others. Spain harbors a large number of illegal North American English teachers, and there are a few in Italy. Germany's different because laws are more strictly enforced.

So, best of luck. Please do post any valuable information you come up with on loopholes that allow you to get a legal working permit for Germany in the future.

[SaraLF]

Do not listen to everything you read on this message board! A few years ago I asked about teaching English in Germany and everyone told me I'd never get a job here. Now that I'm in Germany it's very different from what I read on this forum. My Aussie friend who does not have an EU passport got a job teaching English her first week in Germany. She got hired at the first school she went to and received a work permit. The most important thing is to have some money saved for living expenses when you first arrive. Most language schools will post their jobs online, so check if there are openings in the city before you move.

I would recommend coming with at least 3000 E because a lot of teachers only get paid once a month and you will need money to get started. Don't expect to make a killing; teaching English starts around 10E an hour and then goes up to 30E for those with experience ect. Knowing German helps.

[justin032]

I agree with Sara I often see even posted online jobs that say they accept Americans.

[Hod]

No, it�s not worth it.

Germany is one of the most developed countries on the planet. There can�t be a better place to get seriously ill. Your chances of survival with an illness such as cancer or heart disease must be many times higher than in almost any other country on earth. That�s taking things to extremes, though, and normal everyday illnesses and problems are sorted with an efficiency unseen elsewhere.

But that�s only for people in the system. I lived in Germany as a freelance English teacher and could only look in from the outside at all the benefits on offer. I remember being paid 15 euros an hour to teach unemployed students sent from the arbeitsamt. They were all getting the first year unemployment benefit of 60% of their previous income, which was far more money than I was getting. It�s just lucky I never got sick or had a bad toothache, because I would�ve had no option but to fly back to the UK for treatment. Private health insurance is way out of reach for the freelance teacher.

If you can�t beat them�as an EU citizen, I can do any job in Germany, and now I do. The tax and admin just to live in Germany are a nightmare, but at least me and mine get the benefits. Without that, I�d be out of here tomorrow.

[SaraLF]

Whatever, health insurance costs 130 E a month, it is not out of reach for freelance teachers. It costs a little more than taking the train everyday! I don't know any teachers who have trouble paying for health insurance.