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[Travel Zen]

Hi.

I've heard and read so much about this fine country but I haven't heard a peep about race relations there. I've heard some first hand horror stories about Venezuela for instance, but not Brazil.

Planning on travelling there in 2009.

Can you share your knowledge of the place?

Thanks.

[Manaus]

Tiger Beer and I left some comments under "My story in Brazil".

[Travel Zen]

Thanks for thos insightful comments.

[nikon]

In my opinion, from my experience living in Bahia, I don't think that they like "gringos" in Bahia. If you've heard of the word "exploracao", you may have an idea about this, or you can send me your personal email address if you would like to know why I think, what I say is true, or to differ with my observation.
cheers

[Manaus]

I've heard that foreigners are not exactly welcome in Bahia - but that was from one source who said that she was basically "harassed" there.

[Tiger Beer]

Bahia. Salvodor is a predominately a center of African-Brazilian culture, and is the main city of Bahia. Things like Candomble and such are popular touristic attractions. Pelhourinho WAS the heart of the slave trade in Brazil, and is now a very historic, and well-protected (meaning many police with large guns watching the main streets so tourists aren't 'robbed' in famous Pelhourinho, etc. - much like the police do in tourist-popular Copocabana Beach in Rio de Jainero)

I don't think Salvador has a racist problem. It's a historically 'black city' but you'll meet all colors of Brazilians in Salvador, etc. It might have an 'economic' problem of the rich being too rich, and the poor being way too poor, but its a social problem, not a racial problem. That is the same story throughout Brazil however.

Racially, Bahia is famous with stories of the infamous Brazilian 'mulatto' - the sexuality of black mixed with white children. Ilheus being the famous city of the books written by Jorge Amado. Bahia is famous for the sensuality of the 'mulatto' that Brazil has become so famous for internationally.

(Some people say the word 'mulatto' is offensive, but its the common word of literature for Brazil - in fact, its very positive. It's not an offensive thing in Brazil by any means, but I am half expecting someone to PM me that it is). But I'll avoid being overly PC, and use the word anyways. I've always liked the word, and agree that mixed black/white are some of the most beautiful-looking people on the planet.

[brucecrawford]

[quote="Tiger Beer"] (Some people say the word 'mulatto' is offensive, but its the common word of literature for Brazil - in fact, its very positive. It's not an offensive thing in Brazil by any means, but I am half expecting someone to PM me that it is). But I'll avoid being overly PC, and use the word anyways.

Hi,

No, it is not offensive but it very much depends *how* you are going to say that and to whom. People usually prefer to use moreno which is more acceptable and may be more sensual than mulatto ('mulato, in Portuguese). Anyway, you should not address people directly with these words: leave them for native speakers of Portuguese. You might, however, refer to that "moreno/mulatto/black over there" provide that you say that in a kind tone of voice. Nobody is going to make a fuss out of it like in some other countries.

Salvador does like foreigners; in fact, it depends on them (us!) to a recent extent. After all, *we* have the dollars and the euros to spend. There are good people out there but there are those who will not waste time to exploit you - but that's true in many (if not all) countries! In an empoverished society such as northeastern Brazil's (that includes Salvador Bahia), everyone will be tempted to get their share even if they have no right to that. Got me?

So, stay away from crowds and smaller groups of people (especially men) that seem far from friendly and always address them politely. Ah, do wear discrete clothes so that you will be able to go unnoticed: the less "foreigner" you look, the more chances you'll have not to be 'explorado' (exploited).

Bruce

[shaner]

I live and work in Fortaleza and I must say there is a dislike of foreign men who have blue eyes and white skin (like me) due to the fact that there are many Italian sex tourists who come here in huge numbers to use their Euros to purchase prostitutes. It is quite frequent to see 55 yr old men with a 20 yr old woman in a restaurant etc.

Unfortunatly, many people do not have enough education here to understand that not all people who have white skin and blue eyes are Italian and thereby a sex tourist. I constantly have people scowl at me in stores, just plain rude due to the fact of my apperance.

I am always asked if I am Italian. When I answer that I am Canadian and I work and live here people are so friendly and open.

Let me be fair to say that not all Italian people are like this, but the Italians who come to Fortaleza are horrible. I wish the government would do something to get rid of these clowns. It ruins chances for other foreign people who come here and want to work and contribute to Brazillian culture without being lumped in with these sickos.

[Guy Courchesne]

11 Minutes.

How do you find Brazil over Mexico in this sense, Shaner?

Good to see you again by the way.

[Tiger Beer]

Quite a surprise to see Shaner as well, and he's BACK IN BRAZIL!

Interesting about Fortaleza. I have heard and read that many Italian sex tourists go directly there now. I'd even heard many other people complaining specifically about that.

Apparently the Northeast of Brazil has direct flights to Europe (none from North America). Also heard that the entire region has changed significantly from whichever city has direct flights to Europe now. I believe it was Natal and another couple as well. Purely sex tourism as well.

Messed up how much things can change from that. Wonder how nearby cities would be like, for example, Sao Luis, Maceio, which don't have the direct flights.

Shaner, how long have you been there now? I'm gonna send you a PM as well!

[Isisgato]

Hi, can anybody give me any word on how Natal is now. I lived there from 1988-1990 and loved it. I was back for a short while ( 5 days or so ) in 2000, and it seemed to have got better in some ways. What's it like today, 'cos I'm thinking of going back. Thanks ao any and all who reply.

[Manaus]

[choi413]

brazilians are one of the most open and friendliest people i've met. And when you look at the diversity of brazilians, it affirms how open they are in terms of race.

however, many people think because of this great diversity that there is little racism. that is wrong imo. there is a LOT of racism, especially against black brazilians. blacks, especially males, are thought to be criminals. When i was in a bus late at night, they have these random security stops by police on the street. the cops come in to the bus and search the black males to make sure they're not carrying contraband like guns, drugs, wads of cash.

also, during the time that i was in rio, i don't think i once saw a black waiter at any sit-down restaurant let alone get served by one. it seems like they don't want any dark-skinned people working in the hotels and restaurants.

In all, people do generally get along here. I'm asian and i never had problems. Even black americans from the US i met didn't have any problems with racism, though being tourists w/money might have something to do with it. But there is a lot of discrimination against black brazilians shown by the constant harassment by the police, and certain businesses like certain restaurants, stores, etc.

speaking of racism in brazil, i learned that racism in soccer is a crime?! supposedly you could go to jail for saying a racial slur at an opposing player. odd aint it.

[icehockey23]

"Even black americans from the US i met didn't have any problems with racism, though being tourists w/money might have something to do with it."

I am hesitant to add to this conversation as being a foreigner in different countries I have found it is soooooo very easy to make huge inappropriate uniformed generalizations very quickly. However, being the hypocrite that I am here comes my one cent.

When I was young and first went to England I was surprised that people could know immediately everything about you once you opened your mouth and uttered a word - "Oh, he went to Public school." (OK another generalization)

Brazil is similar. I would say that there is not so much racism in Brazil as a North American would understand it - as there is a type of classism. The clothes that you wear (especially the shoes?!), the car that you drive, the kind of Portuguese that you speak, the people that you know are probably more important than the color of your skin in the way that society here will look on you.

However, I am an estrangeiro "caucasian" male and probably dont have much to contribute here - it would be far more interesting to hear from some Brazilians but this forum is probably not the place.

[choi413]