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Fitzgerald
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 224
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 Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| water rat wrote: |
| Since you like your boss, what I would do in your situation is stop coming to work. Tell him you don't mean anything by it, but the dribs and drabs of salary he's granted you are not enough. You have had to send much of it to your poor old mother (or whoever) who is also behind in her bills thanks to him, and you've got expenses of your own, so, you're embarrassed to admit it, but no you can't afford the bus fare to where the gig is as you'd rather use the little money you have on keeping yourself in bean and cheese burritos and drinking water. Do nothing until you are paid in full. Next payday, you have only to hint that you'll do all this again, and he'll be calling you in to fork over the dough. |
This seems reasonable. I may try this approach by saying that if I am not paid in full before next Monday, I can't start teaching next week's classes. The point about the bus fare is especially good, since that money (and time) is out-of-pocket for me. |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Fitzgerald wrote: |
| water rat wrote: |
| Since you like your boss, what I would do in your situation is stop coming to work. Tell him you don't mean anything by it, but the dribs and drabs of salary he's granted you are not enough. You have had to send much of it to your poor old mother (or whoever) who is also behind in her bills thanks to him, and you've got expenses of your own, so, you're embarrassed to admit it, but no you can't afford the bus fare to where the gig is as you'd rather use the little money you have on keeping yourself in bean and cheese burritos and drinking water. Do nothing until you are paid in full. Next payday, you have only to hint that you'll do all this again, and he'll be calling you in to fork over the dough. |
This seems reasonable. I may try this approach by saying that if I am not paid in full before next Monday, I can't start teaching next week's classes. The point about the bus fare is especially good, since that money (and time) is out-of-pocket for me. |
Good idea. Warn him first.
By the way at http://esl-bits.net/Novellas.for.ESL.Students/Shopgirl/07/default.html I was reading 'Shopgirl' by Steve Martin (Yes, that Steve Martin) and the protagonist wows some rich folks at a party with the following speech. (Of course, you are not exactly lying, but as you will see that is the key!)
| Quote: |
All points of view are duly expressed, with nothing new forthcoming, but with nods and asides and overlaps. This rapid exchange gives the appearance of an interesting conversation but one whose actual content is flat, dull, and drunken. That is, until Mirabelle speaks. Mirabelle, sober as an angel, fearlessly breaks into the chatter midstream:
“I think for a lie to be effective, it must have three essential qualities.”
The booming voices of the men fade and the trebles of the women trail off. Ray Porter quietly worries inside.
“And what are those?” says a voice.
“First, it must be partially true. Second, it must make the hearer feel sorry for you, and third, it must be embarrassing to tell,” says Mirabelle.
“Go on,” the room implies.
“It must be partially true to be believable. If you arouse sympathy you’re much more likely to get what you want, and if it’s embarrassing to tell, you’re less likely to be questioned.”
As an example, Mirabelle breaks down her lie to Mr. Agasa. She explains that the partially true part is that she did sometimes need to go to the doctor. She then made him feel sorry for her because she was in pain, then she embarrassed herself by having to explain it was a gynecological problem.
The agile minds in the room click open the brain files and store this analysis away for future use. Ray Porter, meanwhile, is tilted momentarily one centimeter off axis and for the first time in almost a year wonders if it is not he, but Mirabelle, who is determining the exact nature and character of their relationship. |
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Fitzgerald
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Emailed to my boss at 11:00 AM today:
Hello [ ],
I've got to say that I am upset and angry about the situation with my pay. It is now February 12, and this is getting ridiculous. I've got to assume based on what is happening this month that this same situation could happen ANY month, and I just can't see myself continuing on that basis. For now, I must respectfully ask that the full remaining 4,900 + pesos be deposited in my Banorte account by noon on Friday; and I also respecfully ask that in March, my pay for February should be deposited in my account within 48 hours of my submitting photo-scans of my completed timesheets by email. That is the only basis on which I can continue to work. If you can fulfill both of those requests, then we shall see. But I think that what I am asking is only fair.
I am sorry, indeed very sorry, if your business is not on as solid a footing as I at first thought it was. I like you and I think you are a very decent fellow, as I have said MANY times. I like working for you, which is why this situation with the pay is such a shock. Whatever you needed to do to make sure that I got paid should have been done BEFORE I contacted you on Monday. Now it is Thursday, and STILL nothing has been done. What am I supposed to think? You are making a very bad impression here.
I have been professional and reliable. I am waking up at 4:30 AM five days per week in order to take long bus rides back and forth to business parks, and I am not compensated for that considerable amount of travel time. The least I can expect, therefore, is to be paid promptly and in full.
I also notice that none of the other classes that you have mentioned to me as possibilities have so far materialized. I guess I have to assume that they will not. That affects my situation AND my thinking about my situation.
I certainly do not believe that you at all intend to do me a bad turn, but when I cannot pay my bills and have to worry about whether I and my animals will be able to EAT, matters have gone too far. It marks a permanent change in our relations.
In frustration,
[ ]
Last edited by Fitzgerald on Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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bexarwithme
Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Your email sounds a little on the aggressive side and might put your boss in a defensive position and feeling cutting ties might be a better option. Everything you said is true though. The goal is getting money so something more subtle might have been called for where you spell out how much you liked him and the work but you had responsibilities to care for and needed to look for work elsewhere. I think something short and simple along the lines of "Please call me when you can pay me and I will be glad to return to work" mixed in with some flowery pleasantries would have been more effective. You need to draw a line in the stand with him and stick to it and not let him string you along. The next time he is late you never return to work until he catches up the pay. I know this isn't practical advice since you already sent the email but I thought the tone was so strong that it may work against you that I had to chip in my two cents. I have been following your story and you are very generous to be sharing it in such great detail. I hope you get this worked out and are able to get down to enjoying your new city. Good luck! |
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Fitzgerald
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bexarwithme wrote: |
| Your email sounds a little on the aggressive side and might put your boss in a defensive position and feeling cutting ties might be a better option. Everything you said is true though. The goal is getting money so something more subtle might have been called for where you spell out how much you liked him and the work but you had responsibilities to care for and needed to look for work elsewhere. I think something short and simple along the lines of "Please call me when you can pay me and I will be glad to return to work" mixed in with some flowery pleasantries would have been more effective. You need to draw a line in the stand with him and stick to it and not let him string you along. The next time he is late you never return to work until he catches up the pay. I know this isn't practical advice since you already sent the email but I thought the tone was so strong that it may work against you that I had to chip in my two cents. I have been following your story and you are very generous to be sharing it in such great detail. I hope you get this worked out and are able to get down to enjoying your new city. Good luck! |
You undoubtedly have a point there! He coughed up the money two hours after the email was sent, though, so it must have been effective on some level. But he may well be thinking that it would be better for me to be gone - Mexicans are ultra-sensitive about direct criticism, in my experience - and if so, I can handle that. I'm out peddling my resume, and the minute that I can walk, I will. If he lets me go immediately, well then, I've GOT to find something else, so I WILL. That's all there is to it.
I do tend towards a strong tone, I know. It is a very direct American-style tone, out of keeping with the expected cautious politeness in Mexico (or in Korea, where I have also worked). But you know what? The politeness game has never gotten me anywhere in either country, possibly because, as an outsider, I really can't play it effectively. I think you have to be INSIDE the culture to do that, to hit pressure points subtly while sounding generally polite. But whether I am correct about that or not, all I know is that asking politely and repeatedly has not worked for me internationally. So then I become much more pointed and even a little crude, and I generally get some of what I want.
It's sad that I feel I need to play it like that, and it loses me points with some of the people I deal with, of that I am well aware. But honestly, most of them think Americans are jerks anyway, and if playing to that stereotype sometimes works, then I have felt I HAD to do it, even at the risk of damaging relationships. People in these host countries say many things to expats that are JUST TALK, and I don't deal well with being at the mercy of that. If the way I regain some advantage is by being pushy, so be it.
I will quite reasonably accept that I am open to criticism on this score. After five years abroad, I am much less optimistic about cross-cultural communications than I was when I first set out. I try to protect myself and do the best I can. I feel that I have got to protect myself out here because no one else is going to do it; I've certainly never had a relationship with a native who would go to bat for me in a pinch. Many of them have been quite nice, but I recognize that it's all very surfacey. In a lot of countries, natives do not easily feel any real obligations to outsiders. And if worse comes to worse, they will throw you under the bus, in the nicest possible way, but they WILL do it.
Although I generally like being abroad, or I wouldn't have stayed out here so long, I often think of something a colleague who spent seven years in Taiwan and Korea once said: "Living internationally, you give up a lot." I think one of those things you give up is trust; I'm no longer very trusting. Outside the cocoon of the familar, I have come to understand the phrase "dog eat dog" much better, and I know that understanding has had some effect on my behavior and greatly increased my wariness. People in the U.S. and Canada take advantage of you, too, but I perceive that sort of behavior much more clearly in the international setting. And I'd rather be overly sensitive to it, which some might argue that I am, than allow myself to be jerked around.
Last edited by Fitzgerald on Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bexarwithme
Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you for the detailed reply. I feel like I have learned something. My first response was more a commentary on general human relations and I failed to take into account the cross-cultural component of your situation of which you are far more an expert on than I given your time abroad. I am so glad you were paid quickly and hopefully your new boss will be more forthcoming with paying on time in the future. |
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Fitzgerald
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| bexarwithme wrote: |
| Thank you for the detailed reply. I feel like I have learned something. My first response was more a commentary on general human relations and I failed to take into account the cross-cultural component of your situation of which you are far more an expert on than I given your time abroad. I am so glad you were paid quickly and hopefully your new boss will be more forthcoming with paying on time in the future. |
Oh, I think your first response was very good, and puts a finger on a failing of mine. My answer is intended as a kind of self-analysis, hopefully not TOO rationalizing. |
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Guero1
Joined: 20 Dec 2013
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| have a look at United English in Loma Dorado in Queretaro, they never let me down and provde transport to all company classes. 13,000 monthly too, depending on qualifications / negotiating skills |
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Fitzgerald
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Guero1 wrote: |
| have a look at United English in Loma Dorado in Queretaro, they never let me down and provde transport to all company classes. 13,000 monthly too, depending on qualifications / negotiating skills |
Ah, interesting, I was planning to drop by there Monday morning anyway.
Globoworld here in Queretaro also provides taxi transportation to company classes. My current boss does not, and the bus rides to and from the business parks can be quite tedious. The buses are not always dependable, either. So to be sure of getting to my 7:00 AM classes, I have to be at the bus stop by 5:30. The classes are over by 8:30, and I arrive home between 9:30 and 10:00. So that is an investment of 4 1/2 hours of actual time for 1 1/2 hours of pay. Evenings are a little better, but still. |
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lagringalindissima
Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Posts: 105
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:29 pm Post subject: LEAVE.. |
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I would just quit..you are in Mexico City, right? Surely you can find another job to hold you until you find a decent job. But if not, see if your family can/will help you get a flight home and let you stay with them.. even being unemployed and living with your parents is better than working but not being paid.
I dealt with this in United English Irapuato. It started with not getting paid my full salary for my first paycheck..but my housing was pre paid by them and deducted, so I rationalized that "they just took that out.. they said they'd take it out of my first two checks, but I they just took it all from check one". Then I got the same amount 2 weeks later.. I was about to confront them when they paid me a few days late. At the time I decided that was tolerable. It's not! Guess what? During month two pay was later, not in full or non existent. And I was trusting them to do my work visa. I ended up getting on a plane and flying home.
Your boss probably is in fact nice..both Mexicans and foreigners setting up schools in Latin America almost always are. And he is dealing with the reality of the Latin American culture..students likely don't pay him on time. But that is not an excuse. It you work, you must be paid. If he really has no way to do that, he needs to be honest with you and explain that he can't employ you.
I got tired of the statement that Hispanics are "flaky about getting things done on time but basically trustworthy and honest". The population in general is not dishonest, but language school are. That's why I think it's a very bad idea to just travel to Latin America and job hunt. Schools do lie to teachers about the hours they'll get, they do just not pay and say "Sorry, but.." and list endless excuses and they do claim they know how to and can/will get you a visa when they don't and can't. |
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Fitzgerald
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: LEAVE.. |
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| lagringalindissima wrote: |
I would just quit..you are in Mexico City, right? Surely you can find another job to hold you until you find a decent job. But if not, see if your family can/will help you get a flight home and let you stay with them.. even being unemployed and living with your parents is better than working but not being paid.
I dealt with this in United English Irapuato. It started with not getting paid my full salary for my first paycheck..but my housing was pre paid by them and deducted, so I rationalized that "they just took that out.. they said they'd take it out of my first two checks, but I they just took it all from check one". Then I got the same amount 2 weeks later.. I was about to confront them when they paid me a few days late. At the time I decided that was tolerable. It's not! Guess what? During month two pay was later, not in full or non existent. And I was trusting them to do my work visa. I ended up getting on a plane and flying home.
Your boss probably is in fact nice..both Mexicans and foreigners setting up schools in Latin America almost always are. And he is dealing with the reality of the Latin American culture..students likely don't pay him on time. But that is not an excuse. It you work, you must be paid. If he really has no way to do that, he needs to be honest with you and explain that he can't employ you.
I got tired of the statement that Hispanics are "flaky about getting things done on time but basically trustworthy and honest". The population in general is not dishonest, but language school are. That's why I think it's a very bad idea to just travel to Latin America and job hunt. Schools do lie to teachers about the hours they'll get, they do just not pay and say "Sorry, but.." and list endless excuses and they do claim they know how to and can/will get you a visa when they don't and can't. |
I'm in Queretaro, actually. Thanks for the comments. My parents are long gone, and my siblings in the U.S. are in as precarious a financial situation than I am (or worse), so no help is to be found in that direction, I am afraid. I am 100% responsible for myself. Thank heaven, at least, that I have had the foresight not to allow any other people to become dependent on ME. My only dependents are my pets (for whom I am ever grateful, but who only cost me a pittance, particularly in relation to how much they contribute to my life).
It is interesting how many of us in international education these days are not young, but instead mature, often unattached individuals who cannot see a future in our home countries. But I digress...
Your story about United English is interesting, especially since someone else recommended UE to me (but the branch here in Queretaro is not currently hiring). I agree that ALL international educational employers must be approached and handled with caution and a dose of self-protective wariness. On some issues, they can mess up a time or two. When it comes to paying me on time, I decided that no mess-ups are tolerable. One and I walk, and that's what I did in this situation.
I completely agree with you that the standard excuses for some of the behaviors one sees are lame and self-serving. After five years abroad and four years in Mexico, they cut no mustard with me.
I have a new full-time gig lined up. We will see how that goes. I approach all new undertakings in a cheerful spirit, until such time as I am disabused of that attitude. Which happens too often, admittedly, but a dose of Stoicism can help see one through. |
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lagringalindissima
Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Posts: 105
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:28 am Post subject: Suerte :).. |
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I really REALLY wanted to believe teaching in Latin America can be a real career! I am bilingual and I couldn't transition to either teaching or living where I don't speak the language. But what you described is typical of language schools though out the region, I am afraid.
I was "the odd one out" when I taught in Latin America my mid to late 30s. Teachers are typically either one extreme (22, fresh out of college and just wanting to travel and learn Spanish) or the other (retirees.. often with years of experience teaching in Asia or the Middle East). The exceptions are people who are married to locals.
So don't take it personally..and DON'T make the mistake I did. Don't excuse this because "it's their culture".. I did because:
a) I loved my job and students.
b) I had some savings and my contract was just 6 months anyway.
c) I was just in denial that "such nice people" could be exploiting me.
FYI: I worked at United English in Irapuato in 2007. It was owned by a Mexican couple who spoke limited English and it was TINY. There were 2 teachers besides me..one was a non native speaker of both Spanish and English who was neighbors with the owners and needed a job. I don't know what happened with it since 2007. |
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Fitzgerald
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Suerte :).. |
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| lagringalindissima wrote: |
I really REALLY wanted to believe teaching in Latin America can be a real career! I am bilingual and I couldn't transition to either teaching or living where I don't speak the language. But what you described is typical of language schools though out the region, I am afraid.
I was "the odd one out" when I taught in Latin America my mid to late 30s. Teachers are typically either one extreme (22, fresh out of college and just wanting to travel and learn Spanish) or the other (retirees.. often with years of experience teaching in Asia or the Middle East). The exceptions are people who are married to locals.
So don't take it personally..and DON'T make the mistake I did. Don't excuse this because "it's their culture".. I did because:
a) I loved my job and students.
b) I had some savings and my contract was just 6 months anyway.
c) I was just in denial that "such nice people" could be exploiting me.
FYI: I worked at United English in Irapuato in 2007. It was owned by a Mexican couple who spoke limited English and it was TINY. There were 2 teachers besides me..one was a non native speaker of both Spanish and English who was neighbors with the owners and needed a job. I don't know what happened with it since 2007. |
I try not to take things personally - that is one lesson that teaching internationally has taught me. When I gave two weeks notice at my current job (which I finished on Saturday), the owner seemed put out, and I reminded HIM not to take it personally, either. It's just business.
I so much agree with you that "cultural" explanations for bad behavior are for the birds. Yes, one must be sensitive to stylistic differences and nuances. But beyond that, I think one needs a little steel in the spine in order not to get taken advantage of.
Hopefully United English has cleaned up their act in the past eight years.
I will be sticking it out here in Queretaro and will find a way to make it work. For me, and I assume for some others, there is no United States anymore, that's all in the past, there is just the "now" wherever I am. And Queretaro is a mighty nice place to be. It's like living in a city the caliber of San Francisco, for 5% of the cost. |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Suerte :).. |
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| Fitzgerald wrote: |
| I will be sticking it out here in Queretaro and will find a way to make it work. For me, and I assume for some others, there is no United States anymore, that's all in the past, there is just the "now" wherever I am. And Queretaro is a mighty nice place to be. It's like living in a city the caliber of San Francisco, for 5% of the cost. |
Why be so stringent? Do you dislike the US for some reason? And I am astonished to hear you compare Queretaro so favorably to San Francisco. I know nothing about Queretaro, but come on, really? Can it be that nice? |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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It's a little sad that people get to feel that way about their own country. For me, my country (England) is in my heart and will never leave. I see many things happen there now that do not do not belong to the country I love, but just like my marriage, and the occasional problems that arise in it, divorce is not an option.
We are our country, not the politicians or the stupid laws. |
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