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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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 Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ecocks wrote: |
| Certainly this is the area of the world where the word ghetto was born though and you should be prepared to deal with feelings you run into. |
Actually, ghetto, the word and the place, are Italian in origin. According to my trusty dictionary, it comes from the Venetian dialect of the 16th century and referred to the island where the Jews were forced to live at that time, hence the inspiration for Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice. |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, and this area of the world is called Europe. Ukraine is located in Europe. Italy is also a country in Europe. When you travel around Europe you see the Warsaw Ghetto, Prague Ghetto, etc.
Here in Kyiv, the Jewish quarter/ghetto was located in the merchant's town down by the river in the area known as Podil. |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ecocks wrote: |
Yes, and this area of the world is called Europe. Ukraine is located in Europe. Italy is also a country in Europe. When you travel around Europe you see the Warsaw Ghetto, Prague Ghetto, etc.
Here in Kyiv, the Jewish quarter/ghetto was located in the merchant's town down by the river in the area known as Podil. |
I have no need of geography lessons - I know that Ukraine is in Europe. I was only commenting on the origin of the word ghetto, which you implied was Ukrainian. Obviously, the wonderfulness of the concept quickly spread all over the eastern part of Europe, since it appealed to the anti-semitism already prevalent in that part of the world. |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| The "area" is Europe, as should have been evident since I gave specific examples from Poland and Czech Republic in addition to describing that we had a Jewish quarter here. |
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Digdug79
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Anna Reid's book Borderland, which is a history of Ukraine and travel writing intertwined, has an interesting chapter on anti-Semitism through the ages in Ukraine, culminating in WW2. Her observation is that anti-Semitism isn't as rife as it used to be in Ukraine, largely because after the Holocaust there weren't many Jews left in Ukraine (it being under Nazi occupation for much of the war). On the other hand, Ukraine is still reluctant to face up to its own role in the Holocaust (some Ukrainians collaberated with the Nazis as they thought they might allow Ukraine to be an independent state). This could arguably be considered hypocritical given the campaign to get the Holodomor (Soviet man-made famine of 1932-33) recognised as an act of genocide against the Ukrainian people. |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| While in Odessa a couple of weeks ago, I noticed several small groups of Jewish people on Saturday as well as a few singles. There appears to be a community functioning there. Maybe my apartment was just close to a synagogue though. |
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Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
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| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Digdug79 wrote: |
| Anna Reid's book Borderland, which is a history of Ukraine and travel writing intertwined, has an interesting chapter on anti-Semitism through the ages in Ukraine, culminating in WW2. Her observation is that anti-Semitism isn't as rife as it used to be in Ukraine, largely because after the Holocaust there weren't many Jews left in Ukraine (it being under Nazi occupation for much of the war). On the other hand, Ukraine is still reluctant to face up to its own role in the Holocaust (some Ukrainians collaberated with the Nazis as they thought they might allow Ukraine to be an independent state). This could arguably be considered hypocritical given the campaign to get the Holodomor (Soviet man-made famine of 1932-33) recognised as an act of genocide against the Ukrainian people. |
Perhaps, but can the current population of Ukraine be held responsible for the actions of a previous generation? Should we blame the modern Germans for the actions of Nazi Germany too? I think not. |
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RQRose
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Although you do not hold a country Responsible for past crimes, still it IS necessary for that country to REMEMBER the crimes in order that they not be repeated.
A man who forget past mistakes is doomed to repeat them.
| Cardinal Synn wrote: |
| Digdug79 wrote: |
| Anna Reid's book Borderland, which is a history of Ukraine and travel writing intertwined, has an interesting chapter on anti-Semitism through the ages in Ukraine, culminating in WW2. Her observation is that anti-Semitism isn't as rife as it used to be in Ukraine, largely because after the Holocaust there weren't many Jews left in Ukraine (it being under Nazi occupation for much of the war). On the other hand, Ukraine is still reluctant to face up to its own role in the Holocaust (some Ukrainians collaberated with the Nazis as they thought they might allow Ukraine to be an independent state). This could arguably be considered hypocritical given the campaign to get the Holodomor (Soviet man-made famine of 1932-33) recognised as an act of genocide against the Ukrainian people. |
Perhaps, but can the current population of Ukraine be held responsible for the actions of a previous generation? Should we blame the modern Germans for the actions of Nazi Germany too? I think not. |
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