Job Discussion Forums

[johnslat]

Dear scot47,
In the unlikely event anyone is unfamiliar with your reference:

"�Pobre M�xico! �Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos!" (Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!)

usually attributed to Porfirio Diaz

However, I suspect there are a large number of residents of that country who are not too sorry the USA is "so close." Many of them are now living in New Mexico after a river crossing.

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

[007]

[scot47]

Naughty Seven should know that GRINGO is a term of abuse directed at Norteamericanos.

Supposedly because they used to sing the song "Green grow the rushes oh." as they rode through Mexico laying he land to fire and sword.

Personally I have nothing against our cousins from across the pond. I wish they would stick to the principles of the founders of that proud republic ! Ah Jefferson, where are you now ?

[johnslat]

Dear 007,
If that fence ever gets built (and I have strong doubts about that), it'll just be a money-wasting, politically motivated boondoggle that will have little or no effect on the influx of "illegal aliens" into the USA.
For one thing, as you mentioned, tunnels are already very popular (and would become even more so.) For another, since the USA and Mexico share a border of some 1950 miles, it would seem a "700 mile border fence" is not going to cover a lot of area.
For another, no matter what obstacles might be put in the way (and fences/walls don't seem to have a very high success rate in history: the Great Wall of China, Hadrian's Wall, the Berlin Wall, etc.), that's not going to stop many of our southern neighbors from trying to improve their living conditions.
But if I might make one correction to your posting - I get the impression that you think the term "Gringo" refers to Mexicans:

"That's why Uncle Sam has signed a legislation for a 700-mile border fence to counter illegal immigration of Gringos into the 'magic land' !!"

Actually it's we residents north of the Rio Grande:

"Gringo (feminine, gringa) is a term in the Spanish and Portuguese languages used in some countries of Latin America to refer to foreigners from different cultures, particularly English-speakers, and especially from the United States, although too from Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and other countries, including in some cases other countries of Latin America itself.
Some disagreement exists among English speakers regarding whether gringo is a derogatory term. The American Heritage Dictionary and other English dictionaries classify the term as "offensive slang", "usually disparaging" or "often disparaging". The term gringo does lend itself to derogatory, paternalistic or endearing connotations sometimes, depending on the context and the intent of the user. However, many native speakers who use it do not do so pejoratively, as is also the case with some English speakers. The enunciation of the word can often give away whether it was meant in a derogatory manner or not. There is furthermore some variation in the connotation of this word from country to country within Latin America, and between Latin America and the Anglosphere. "

In that respect, it's rather like "khawaga":

"Khawaga (خواجة) is an (Egyptian) Arabic word much used around Western tourists, usually without their knowledge. It's rather nasty-sounding word even by the standards of Arabic, starting with a throat-clearing kh and continuing with wAAga!, like spitting phlegm. The middle A is a back vowel (car) while the others are front vowels (at), the lack of vowel harmony making it sound even worse.
The usual gloss is foreigner, but the official word for that is agnabi. Instead, the colloquial khawaga carries distinct connotations of being both rich and clueless. Only a khawaga would buy something in a souq without haggling or pay twenty pounds for a 5-minute ride on a camel; only a khawaga would barge into a mosque in shorts or get frustrated when the train is 15 minutes late.
However, it would be wrong to dub khawaga solely an insult or a pejorative term, as there is a distinct amount of respect and envy mixed in. Arabs speak of 'u'det al-khawaga, "awe of the foreigner", referring to the desire to emulate Western qualities like wealth, sexual freedom, social mobility. This manifests itself not only in some people's preference for things foreign over things Egyptian, but also as a suspicion of people like expatriates who have too much contact with foreigners -- they are assumed to have lost their Arabic culture and many are referred to and treated as khawagas. These suspicions go back a long way, to the extent that al-Khawaga is not an uncommon surname."
Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

Definitely... gringo is very much like Khawaga... it all depends on the speaker. The expats in Mexico mostly use it to refer to themselves in jest with their Mexican friends and each other. It is pretty obvious if and when it is used in a derogatory manner.

Oh... and the story about the song has long been proven false. The word has been traced back to Spain and is very old.

John is right about the fence too... it is a joke and will be a boondoggle if built... will not stop anyone who wants to enter... and was merely a bone thrown to the racist branch of the Republican party.

VS

[scot47]

"Khawaja" is certainly more respectful than "Franji" (Frank).

[johnslat]

Dear scot47,
Really - are you being Frank? How could you be since you're scot?

Speaking of the "Franks", when I was first in Saudi Arabia, I would often ask students what kind of car they had. Sometimes I'd get an answer that I thought was "Crusader," which seemed like an odd name for a car, especially one owned by a Muslim.
I finally realized what they were saying was "Cressida" (a Toyota brand name.) They were putting the accent on the second syllable (cres SAY da.)
Regards,
John

[daughter of difa]

paul, if you dont mind, are you back to the difa den? what's up in there?

[veiledsentiments]

OK... we'll give Paul back his thread. Now back to the regularly scheduled program...

VS

[007]

[scot47]

Tha Pashas and the Bashibazouks left in 1878. I am a Hayduk.

[veiledsentiments]

So much for getting back on topic.

VS

[daughter of difa]

yah right VS...topic is lost now....paging the attention of Mr. Paul...

[Paul in Saudi]

I fly out in about 24 hours. Now I am in the dreadful packing & waiiting phase; just watching the snow out the window.

When I get back I will report on whatever developments there might be.