Job Discussion Forums

[Albulbul]

Facts? What facts ?

Teachers here are more likely to be killed in a car accident than bumped off by Al-Qaeda. Are you telling us that urban areas in the Homeland are safe ? Really.

So what are these facts that you want to give us about the horrors of Saudi Arabia ? While you are at it let us have some tales about the horror of life in urban USA or urban Britain.

[QuickSilver]

Albulbul,

Go back and read the articles. And again...and again, until it all sinks in.

Here's another one!

http://usembassy.state.gov/riyadh/wwwhsc70.html

[johnslat]

Dear Quicksilver,
I think that most of us here are not in a " state of denial ". We know what's going on. But I also think that, being here as we are, we're, quite possibly, in a better position to evaluate the risk factor. The results of such an evaluation will, naturally, differ from individual to individual. Some will conclude it's time to leave while others will decide to stay. Personally, I feel as " safe " here now as the folks back in the States. Am I correct in my feeling so? Well, only time will tell, I believe. However, none of the 40 or so teachers on the staff here are even talking about leaving and no one else I know of is departing. So, if I'm in a deluded condition at least I've got plenty of company.
Regards,
John

[Mark100]

I have to say that i do not feel as safe in Saudi as i would in Australia.There are obvious security concerns here that would be greatly heightened by any conflict in the region.Those who choose to ignore the simple fact that this region would be greatly unsettled by any war seem to to want to avoid reality.No one i know is planning to leave at the moment but this could all change very quickly should a conflict begin and the resultant uncertainty that this would cause.Let's be realistic and admit that the region is likely to become very unstable in the event of what seems an ever more likely conflict.

[johnslat]

Dear Mark,
As I said, everyone's got their own " reality ", depending on what they have experienced and are experiencing. And everyone has to make up his/her own mind about what to do. I wouldn't " advise " anyone to stay or to leave - that's a personal decision and I'm not going to try to impose " my reality " on anyone else. Good luck with your reality - all the best whether you stay or depart.
Regards,
John

[Paul G]

Just to add a little perspective to this discussion:

Killings make LA murder capital

GANG violence has helped transform the US city of Los Angeles into the nation's murder capital as a wave of killings claimed 17 victims in just six days.

The 17th victim was gunned down in the gang-ridden south central area on Thursday, Los Angeles Police Department officers said, just a day after the city's new police chief urged Angelenos to fight the soaring murder rate.

The 3.6 million-strong city's murder rate has risen 11.3 per cent over the same period last year to 595 so far, and by a whopping 20.5 per cent compared to 2000, when only 484 murders were reported, police statistics show.

That rate betters that of New York, which this year has notched up 489 murders among its eight million residents, followed by Chicago with 485 for a population of 2.8 million and Detroit with 346 murders among its one million residents.

That article was from 2001. 2002 was even worse:

Los Angeles leads the nation with 627 murders as of December 7 this year (2002) -- a 6.8 percent increase over last year.

[QuickSilver]

You're comparing apples and oranges, Paul, and you know it.

I know the US has a big problem with crime in general. I'd say the majority of countries do. But you can't stop living in your country because crime is present.

This topic deals with a specific situation where WESTERNERS ARE BEING TARGETED. In this situation, there is a choice.

Note I haven't even suggested that people leave or refrain from going to S.A. It simply hit the fan when someone (me) dared to post something that goes against the grain of what seems to be the prevalent attitude of westerners in S.A.

Mark has expressed a more balance view that recognizes the nature of the threat.

My best to ALL of you. Stay safe.

[johnslat]

Dear Quicksilver,
Dates and oranges might have been a better metaphor - dates for the Kingdom, of course, and an appropriate orange for Los Angeles. But what you wrote does raise a question. You said:
" what seems to be the prevelant attitude of westerners in S.A. ".
What would account for this attitude among so many of us here, do you think? Are we all " in denial ", " blind to the reality ", " victims of mass delusion "? Could be - I mean, you've got to be a little whacko to come here in the first place. On the other hand, maybe we've coolly and calmly evaluated the situation, made a jugement of the " risk factor " involved and decided to stay. I've been on this earth for 60 years now, have been through two wars, one as a participant ( Viet Nam ), the other as a spectator ( Gulf War I ) and one revolution ( Iran, '79 ). I figure that gives me enough background to be able to make up my own mind about my life. Others may decide differently - I wish them all the best. Thanks for your wishes for our safety - you, too ( hope you don't live in L.A. ).
Regards,
John

[johnslat]

Dear Writerman,
Well, you can ask, but unless someone's got a far better pipeline to the high ranks of government here than I ( which wouldn't be hard; I have none ), I doubt you'll get much more than speculation and rumor. I've heard some " swear " the Westerners were " framed " and others who " knew " that they were big in the booze business. The hardest thing to get in the Kingdom isn't booze, drugs or sex - it's the right information. If the " alcohol wars " are still going on, the causalty rate seems to be decreasing - unless, of course, the guys being shot or shot at by supposed terrorists are actually being targeted by others in the business.

[johnslat]

Dear Writerman,
My goodness - that seems like rather an odd response to a paternal visit.
Did google mention what might have caused such a display of filial impiety? Did Dad enter the cell humming " I fought the law, and the law won " or what?
Regards,
John

[nimra_ghalat]

Writerman: have you got the link for the siddiqi merchants in jail for murder? I did a search and only came up with some guy getting 300 lashings (in doses of 50/fortnight) and 16 months in the slammer as punishment for his Filipina wife stealing medical supplies.

[Mark100]

The conventional wisdom in Saudi amongst ex pats is that the siddiqi wars are actually a fabrication by the authorities here to throw people off the unpalatable fact that muslim fundamentalists are behind the bombings.
The truth of the matter is not clear cut although it does seem from interviews done with a Brit who managed to get released that this might indeed be the case.
I think that these westerners will eventually be released but it still may be a while away yet.
Strange things happen in this neck of the woods and if you are unfortuante to be at the wrong place at the wrong time you may become the unfortunate victim of the justice system here.
JUstice is extremely arbitary here and people get away with all sorts of crimes that they would not get away with anywhere else but then there is always the possiblility you may be one of the unlucky victims of the arbitary nature in the way which justice is dispensed in this country.

[johnslat]

Dear Mark,
Could well be a fabrication - or, considering the vast sums that can be made by dealing in alcohol here, it could also be that those jailed were actually engaged in the trade. After all, that's what we all come here for - the money. So I can see how some might get extra greedy. I doubt we'll ever know for sure what's what, though.
Regards,
John