Job Discussion Forums

[moonraven]

I am happy to do that if you will stop clogging the Latin American forum with posts about soccer and beer.

[JonnytheMann]

I talked to my boyfr ... errr, I mean .... "someone" I know who lives in Latin America about how you said that the affluent parts of cities have the most crime. He couldn't stop laughing. Keep the jokes coming!

[moonraven]

So, anecdotal opinion has replaced census data, crime report statistics, and the gini coefficient as the last word in social sciences research?

If you were a little more pathetic I would give you money.

[JonnytheMann]

Post the crime statistics you have on Buenos Aires. Or send me the link so I can read your extensive reseach on Latin American crime.

[moonraven]

Do the research.

I did it, and I am not sending it to you. If you would violate the privacy of a PRIVATE MEMO from delacosta, you would certainly violate mine.

You are the only one who will pay the price for your opinions--IF you ever DO live in Latin America.

Meanwhile, tell us about your last conversation with Elvis.

[JonnytheMann]

Please! Since when is research like that supposed to be private?! Research is supposed to be published and read by others. I have called your bluff. You have done no research ... just as I suggested all along.

By the way, how would I violate your privacy if you posted a few stats on a public message board?

You can't even post some basic statistics? Or at least point me to sources where I could find the statistics that you used?

It's so funny that every single time someone asks you to back up your "facts", you tell them that they need to do research.

You crack me up the way you give dire warnings every day on this website. If I get mugged in a posh BsAs neighborhood, I'll be sure to let you know.

P.S. I did talk to Elvis, and he wanted me to tell you thank you for that time you babysat his grandmother. Also, he loves your book Card Games for One: The Complete Anathema's Guide to Friday Nights Alone.

[moonraven]

Because it is not your business to know my name. Duh.....

And now I see that you have more than one offensive identity on this forum.

[JonnytheMann]

Post a few statistics, Moonraven. Cut and paste them from your research. Then I will happily eat crow.

I definitely don't have more than one identity on this forum. Why do you think that?

[moonraven]

You will not eat any birds related to my species.

I do not owe you any "cutting and pasting" from anything I have written.

I KNOW you have created more than one identity on this forum, that you are currently banned, and therefore are violating the forum rules by continuing to post.

[moonraven]

Although you never thank anyoine when they answer questions, I am going to give you this link:

http://wbln0018.worldbank.org/lac/lacinfoclient.nsf/d29684951174975c85256735007fef12/26924802c381eab385256f420067846c/$FILE/Chapter%204.pdf#search='crime%20statistics%20in%20Latin%20American%20cities'

Scroll down to point 14 in this pdf file and read what it says about violent crime in prosperous areas. You will see, as will anyone with the ability to read, that it says exactly what I posted on this forum: that properous areas are targeted because they have vehicles and money to be robbed.

I am not a particular fan of the World Bank, but they do produce these kinds of studies based on pretty extensive research. Certainly based on more scientific elements than your taking a walk around Buenos Aires.

Jorge Luis Borges--before he became blind--wrote about walking through different BA neighborhoods. That was LITERATURE; he did not try to pass it off as a social science study.

Now you can eat whatever you like--minus birds. I think you know what I would probably recommend.

[matttheboy]

Thanks for the link.

From the report:

"A. Urban violence trends

8. Latin America has a phenomenally high level of violence compared with other regions. While the global average is a homicide rate of 5 per 100,000 inhabitants, with a rate over 10 generally considered dangerously high (Call, 2000), the estimated average for Latin America 2000 was 27.5, the highest for any region in the world (WHO, 2002).

9. However there is significant regional diversity. Overall, El Salvador, Guatemala and Colombia consistently show the highest homicide rates of the region, while Argentina and Chile have rates far below the regional average, even below the global average of 5.1. Thus while Chile�s homicide rate in 1994 was 2.5, El Salvador�s homicide rate in 1994 was 164, and in 1996 it topped some of the global murder ranking statistics. Although the rate decreased to around 80-90 by 1999, it still far exceeded the regional average (Call, 2000). Over the same period Colombia�s homicide rate was 5060 per 100,000 (World Vision, 2002).

14. Within Latin American cities disparities in violence levels are based on neighborhood income levels. More prosperous areas suffer from violent crime, usually property-related such as vehicle robbery (Gaviria and Pag�s, 1999; IESA/LACSO, 1999), while severe violence is generally concentrated in lower-income areas."

The report focuses mainly on Venezuela, El Salvador, Colombia, Mexico, Brazil and Peru. On the countries that have the highest levels of urban crime that is. Chile and Argentina are barely mentioned in the whole report except when mentioning that they are exceptions to the rule.

Chile and Argentina's levels of violence are way below that of Latin America and below the global average. This is exactly what we've been saying. Neither Santiago nor Buenos Aires are 'typical' Latin American cities. Your assumptions are plain wrong.

You know your part of the world. You don't know this part. In the same way i wouldn't trust your judgement on urban crime in wealthy parts of Leeds (because you don't know the place), i wouldn't trust your judgement on urban crime in the wealthy areas of buenos aires or santiago. You've just proved yourself wrong.

[moonraven]

Now the World Bank study is wrong??!!

Your anecdotes still take precedence over research?

You are not in any MA program--or at least not one that you will get a degree from. Folks with "mushrooms are poisonous, but I don't believe it" thinking don't make it.

And I see ytoiu are still posting, even though you have been banned.

[matttheboy]

No. The World Bank study is right. It correctly states that Chile and Argentina have crime levels that are way lower than the rest of Latin America. Exactly as i've been saying. Your statements about urban crime are true for *most* but not *all* of Latin America.

As i've said on numerous occasions: You don't know Buenos Aires or Santiago. They are not the same as Medellin, Caracas or Quito. Crime levels are not only lower than the Latin American average, they are lower than the *global* average. It says so in the report you so kindly provided.

I can't imagine why you'd think i were banned.

[JonnytheMann]

In point #14, it says that "severe violence is generally concentrated in lower-income areas".

It seems that stealing cars and car-jacking have risen in the wealthier parts of Latin American citys. But I don't see anywhere that says that muggings & violence are higher in the wealthy parts of the city.

Point 17: "The escalation of drug-related violence in low-income urban areas is closely linked not only to trafficking but also to high levels of drug consumption."

Point 18: "At their most extreme, drug groups have taken control of the local institutional structures of entire poor urban communities."

[moonraven]

Matt: Something is screwed up with the forum--being able to read the text means I didn't see your avatar.

However, for the record, THIS is what I posted:

"WRONG. The areas of major cities with the most crime--all over Latin America, except for spots such as Quito where crime is in all areas of the city, are: the upper middle class areas (criminals are usually after MONEY, right--and they go where they think there is some) and the marginal areas where criminals prey on each other."

This is exactly what was said in point 14 of the study. In no place did I indicate that Santiago and BA had higher or lower crime rates than other cities. I made a general statement. Whether or not those two cities have lower overall crime rates does not change the pattern of target sectors in the cities.

If you are going to argue with me, let's keep apples as apples and not oranges. Don't put words in my mouth that I have never said or written.