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Izmit - good offer?

 
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Silver_Queen



Joined: 06 Dec 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Izmit - good offer? Reply with quote

Hi guys. How does 2300 TL/month sound for a newbie with just BA + CELTA in Izmit? 200 of that would be on a dining card, the rest in cash. Housing isn't provided.

I figure a flat would probably run me 500-900 TL, but could I live relatively comfortably on the rest? I'm not a partier, but I do like to take trips (of the cheap bus ticket and hostel variety).
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Qaaolchoura



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Izmit, I think you should be fine, assuming costs are similar to mid-range parts of Istanbul. However I don't know about the availability of furnished flats in Izmit; you may have to self-furnish.

The pay package, while not great, is seems to be pretty close to the new average. In the past few years, pay in Turkey has actually slipped backwards.

The big questions are:

1. What hours do they expect?
2. Will they get a work permit? If so, ask for particulars, as depending on the company, you might find they drag their heels on the permit, or never get it to you at all.

If the answer to number 2 is negative or ambiguous, and the answer to number 1 is greater than 5/day x 5 day/week, or the answer to #1 is greater than 35 hours/week, I'd say run, run, and don't look back.

Regards,
~Q
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Silver_Queen



Joined: 06 Dec 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

33 hours a week, spread over 6 days/week, but apparently lesson planning and marking loads are minimal. They'll pay half of my work permit fees, and I've heard they're good about following through with that.
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Qaaolchoura



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say it's not worth it. That comes out to less than $10/hour, and six days a week means that you won't have time to travel any further afield than Bursa, Istanbul, or Iznik, even if you have the energy after working six-day weeks.

~Q
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Silver_Queen



Joined: 06 Dec 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't want to be too picky, as a newbie who definitely wants to work in the region.

What kind of salary would be fair for that many hours? In case I have the opportunity to negotiate with them.
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oipivo



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 158
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working 33 hours a week for 2,300 a month isn't a great deal. It's not atrocious, but it's not great either. You have a CELTA and BA, you should have no trouble at all finding work. You could be paid more at a language school. I would ask for 3,000 TL with 200 on the dining card, that would be a reasonable sum considering they aren't providing any money for housing.

Jobs aren't scarce in Turkey, they need qualified teachers. Don't be afraid to walk away from it if they don't give you what you want.
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billy orr



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why izmit? It is likely to combine all the disadvantages of istanbul with none of its advantages. With your qualifications you would be better off looking in istanbul proper.
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Qaaolchoura



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a somewhat difficult question, since 1. language schools that get work permits for their teachers are quite rare, and of the two that I know of, both have de facto probationary periods they don't mention, in which you're expected to work illegally for several months before they apply for your WP, and 2. you're working in Izmit, which isn't an especially popular place to work. The main reason people work in Izmit (unless they're of Turkish descent and have family there) is that it can pay better than Istanbul, which this job obviously doesn't.

Generally I suggest accepting no less than 18 lira/teaching hour outside Istanbul (yours comes to 15) or 20 lira/teaching hour it (and I include Izmit in "Istanbul" due to its economic integration and consequent living costs), but wages for new teachers seem to be declining in absolute terms now (rather than merely staying stagnant against rapidly rising costs. You could easily meet or exceed those goals working illegally, which most teachers do in the big cities. I don't know if you could really get 3,200 lira, but it's worth a shot, and I wouldn't accept a package that puts your total package a kuruş south of 18 lira/hour (20 if they don't get a WP).

I'm never a fan of encouraging people to work illegally, but since I've figured out that even the language schools that claim to get work permits expect teachers to work illegally for at least a few months (or in some cases promise and then never apply for the WP) and since the current package is somewhat frightening, I'd strongly encourage thinking it over carefully. I'd also ask your potential employer how long it takes to get a work permit, and try to get a straight answer, since they're likely to be evasive. (All WPs are processed in Ankara, and from first application usually take less than a month.)

Regards,
~Q
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Silver_Queen



Joined: 06 Dec 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm talking about Izmit not because I have a particular attraction to that city, but because that's where the school organization is planning to put me. I could request they consider me for a different city, but Izmit doesn't sound too bad for me personally. It's just the wage compared to the contact hours that gives me pause.

I have another interview with them in the next few days, and I'll try to nail them down on the WP and 20 lira/hour.
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oipivo



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 158
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it makes you feel any better I worked without a work permit for over two years with zero problems. I could have gotten one, but it wasn't worth the time and effort. I know some people get weird about only working legally (which obviously is better), but I've been able to do it with no problems.
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Qaaolchoura



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on numerous reports, Istanbul, Ankara, and Izmir are safe to work without a work permit, at least where check-ins by the authorities are concerned.

The Istanbul authorities conduct "random" checks, but like Asian authorities with brothels, they tip off the owners ahead of time, ensuring that only Turks and token foreigners with the right to work (management or married to a Turk, most of the time) are present on that day.

The Izmir authorities have better things to do than to crack down on illegal workers.

Ankara I'm not sure how it works, but I've met people who worked illegally there without trouble, so I'd assume it's safe.

On the other hand, I've heard of foreigners being deported for working illegally from smaller cities; it's basically the reverse of China. Antalya in particular, I've heard stories of foreign workers from Western countries being deported after random sweeps. (Admittedly, Antalya has far more foreigners than it needs.)

Izmit (and Bursa) I know nothing about, since I've never met anyone who worked (legally or otherwise) in either city. (My claims about the reason for working in Izmit, namely money, are based on hearsay.)

Regards,
~Q
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delal



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 231
Location: N Turkey

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lived in Antalya for a while and only heard of one European-not a teacher-who was deported, while quite a few were teaching without the necessary papers.
Maybe it was migrants working in tourism who were deported (when they overstayed?)
Not sure I'd recommend working without papers though as, apart from legal consequences, that leaves you at the mercy of your employers, and constantly looking over your shoulder
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lucia79



Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not advise working illegally even if it is for a few months. I know a teacher in Izmir who got caught and had to pay a fine. I'm sure her school was fined too. My advice to people is that if the school can't bother to get a work permit for you then you shouldn't bother to work for them. I also know a guy from Europe working in a non-teaching sector and his company failed to do things properly and he and the company were fined. He has since become a citizen and doesn't have to worry about working illegally, but it was a costly mistake.
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lucia79



Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qaaolchoura wrote:
The Izmir authorities have better things to do than to crack down on illegal workers.


I know two people who were caught and fined while working illegally in Izmir. I'm sure it has and does happen more than what I'm familiar with, so if I were you I wouldn't be quick to give the impression that the Izmir authorities aren't concerned about illegals.
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Qaaolchoura



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delal: On a Turkish expat forum someone linked to and/or told the story of several illegal workers from Western countries being deported from Antalya. Yes, they were in tourism, but I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that if they deport one set of semi-skilled workers, they'd also be willing to deport the other.

lucia79: OK then. Good to know, though. I hadn't heard of that, but my contacts with other foreigners mostly came from the aforementioned expat forum, and employees of English Time (who for some reason tended to hang around my usual haunts, whereas those of other schools didn't).

So it sounds like Antalya is safe to teach illegally and while Izmir won't get you deported, it may cost you.

lucia79 wrote:
My advice to people is that if the school can't bother to get a work permit for you then you shouldn't bother to work for them.


Seconded. Though unfortunately, the illegal jobs seem to pay a bit better on average, and have lower standards (if they don't invest in you, it's easy to replace you), which means people will always be tempted.

~Q
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