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79% of China Foreign Teachers Want Out...
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3233

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have always been ready and able to leave if things go wrong


Likewise. 79% of teachers in China want out? Well, then......why don't they get out?
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GreatApe



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 422
Location: South of Heaven and East of Nowhere

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% of Internet trolls starve if people refuse to feed them.

--GA
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some take their time to respond to whoever writes whatever.

So, I'll take my time here. Surveys are subjective. Asking a hundred thousand teachers for their opinions and getting some honest answers from them is a gigantic assignment.

I wonder how many married people would say; "I want to divorce"
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wonderingjoesmith wrote:
I wonder how many married people would say; "I want to divorce"


say it? or think it?
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

say it, when no one is listening..
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cormac



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 629
Location: Xi'an (XTU)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem with these surveys is that I can never find anyone that was actually asked to participate. Actual teachers I know rather than faceless email addresses.

So, until I'm asked or I hear of friends being asked, I'll continue to believe these things are a load of *******
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revenger2013



Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's hope those teachers don't go next door to Korea where it is a damn sight worse.

Never had a problem with Chinese FAO's but then I have never worked in a private institution either. I had two bosses in Korea and was royally ripped off by both.
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Asiateacher



Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Shenzhen, China

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did they find these statistics??? There is good and bad here... But getting a bad contract or a cheating boss really SUCKS!
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GreatApe



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 422
Location: South of Heaven and East of Nowhere

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% of people don't know what they have 'til it's gone.

--GA
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DosEquisX



Joined: 09 Dec 2010
Posts: 341

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreatApe wrote:
100% of people don't know what they have 'til it's gone.

--GA


QFT

OPs source seems to be quite questionable. Didn't think the OP was a troll until I started reading OP's other posts itt
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NP1970



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Beijing/Tianjin

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: 79% of China Foreign Teachers Want Out... Reply with quote

B4UGO wrote:
I just read the 2012 annual report and Teacher Survey of the China Foreign Teachers Union and amongst the many stats (collected from 500 random teachers in China from K1-High Schools). The majority (79%) said they would never have become a teacher if they knew what was in store for them. When you read the rest of the report you can see why they are so pissed off (too many scams, ID thefts, unpaid overtime, and 52% said they were even cheated by their own schools!) I also found these two articles on line... http://www.zimbio.com/Beijing+China/articles/CWDbD8FdBB9/China+Foreign+Teachers+Say+Low+Salaries+Insulting which talks about the crappy salaries paid to foreign teachers in China and this one talks about about the scams: http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2012/12/14/china_foreign_teachers_exploited_and_abused_by_scams

Personally, I have seen some teachers threatened by Principals when they try to quit. Teachers are told they will be blacklisted, not get their last pay check, nor their release letter. They wanted to quite because they were being forced to work on one of their two days off for free. I faked a family emergency back home and bailed out of there too. Now I am lucky and found a school that has been 80% fair and honest with me, which is much better than most places. Because Chinese people think "saving money" is admirable, a little bit of cheating means nothing to them I suppose. Here are some more stats that I cut and pasted from the CFTU report:

1. 79% regret choosing the teaching profession in China and will either find new jobs or leave China after their current contracts expire.

2. 8% report that their current employment is �fine�, 7% � acceptable� and 6% �tolerable�.

3. 84% report being either deliberately misled or tricked by agents that recruited them.

4. 52% of those surveyed report being swindled or cheated at least once in the last year by their own employer.

5. 78% were unaware of protections offered by China�s labor laws.

6. 32% report being �pressured� or �extorted� for money in exchange for release letters from employers.

7. 87% report unpaid overtime hours were forced upon them by employers.

8. 64% report working under the provisions of a written contract.
9. 36% report working without a written contract.

10. 57% report that their contracts were breached �often� and �23% seldom� and 2% �never�.

11. 83% report not getting the visa support they were promised upon hiring.

12. 72% report having their work schedule changed more than once a month.

13. 89% report regular unapproved use of their personal images without knowledge, consent, nor compensation.

14. 62% report having their proprietary lesson plans or videos stolen or �hijacked� by employers.

15. 73% report regular violation of copyright and trademark violations by their employer.

16. 38% report not receiving their last paycheck from their former employers.

17. 22% report being sexually harassed by their employers or Chinese staff of employers.

18. 23% report that they trust their employers, 60% report that they do not, and 18% abstained.

There was a handful of positive stuff in the stats about TA support and text books being used. etc. But overall, I think most of the teachers here are not getting a fair shake.


Personally, I think things are getting better for China's foreign teachers - not worse. Why? Because less and less people are coming to China to teach and more and more teachers already here are getting better paying, non-teaching jobs because of this http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2012/12/14/china_foreign_teachers_exploited_and_abused_by_scams

So for those of us who remain teaching in China, we have more leverage to demand higher pay and more benefits since schools and recruiters must now deal with growing demand and shrinking supply. We'd be crazy not to take advantage of this situation.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: 79% of China Foreign Teachers Want Out... Reply with quote

NP1970 wrote:
...Because less and less people are coming to China to teach and more and more teachers already here are getting better paying......



dear sockpuppy,

you might wanna correct the grammer for the STFU page yore
copy&pasting from.

it should be "because fewer and fewr people........to teach morer and
morer.........getting gooder and gooder."

otherwise, you're post is awesomely spamtastic!
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Bolt



Joined: 25 Sep 2013
Posts: 34
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: 79% of China Foreign Teachers Want Out... Reply with quote

NP1970 wrote:
B4UGO wrote:
I just read the 2012 annual report and Teacher Survey of the China Foreign Teachers Union and amongst the many stats (collected from 500 random teachers in China from K1-High Schools). The majority (79%) said they would never have become a teacher if they knew what was in store for them. When you read the rest of the report you can see why they are so pissed off (too many scams, ID thefts, unpaid overtime, and 52% said they were even cheated by their own schools!) I also found these two articles on line... http://www.zimbio.com/Beijing+China/articles/CWDbD8FdBB9/China+Foreign+Teachers+Say+Low+Salaries+Insulting which talks about the crappy salaries paid to foreign teachers in China and this one talks about about the scams: http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2012/12/14/china_foreign_teachers_exploited_and_abused_by_scams

Personally, I have seen some teachers threatened by Principals when they try to quit. Teachers are told they will be blacklisted, not get their last pay check, nor their release letter. They wanted to quite because they were being forced to work on one of their two days off for free. I faked a family emergency back home and bailed out of there too. Now I am lucky and found a school that has been 80% fair and honest with me, which is much better than most places. Because Chinese people think "saving money" is admirable, a little bit of cheating means nothing to them I suppose. Here are some more stats that I cut and pasted from the CFTU report:

1. 79% regret choosing the teaching profession in China and will either find new jobs or leave China after their current contracts expire.

2. 8% report that their current employment is �fine�, 7% � acceptable� and 6% �tolerable�.

3. 84% report being either deliberately misled or tricked by agents that recruited them.

4. 52% of those surveyed report being swindled or cheated at least once in the last year by their own employer.

5. 78% were unaware of protections offered by China�s labor laws.

6. 32% report being �pressured� or �extorted� for money in exchange for release letters from employers.

7. 87% report unpaid overtime hours were forced upon them by employers.

8. 64% report working under the provisions of a written contract.
9. 36% report working without a written contract.

10. 57% report that their contracts were breached �often� and �23% seldom� and 2% �never�.

11. 83% report not getting the visa support they were promised upon hiring.

12. 72% report having their work schedule changed more than once a month.

13. 89% report regular unapproved use of their personal images without knowledge, consent, nor compensation.

14. 62% report having their proprietary lesson plans or videos stolen or �hijacked� by employers.

15. 73% report regular violation of copyright and trademark violations by their employer.

16. 38% report not receiving their last paycheck from their former employers.

17. 22% report being sexually harassed by their employers or Chinese staff of employers.

18. 23% report that they trust their employers, 60% report that they do not, and 18% abstained.

There was a handful of positive stuff in the stats about TA support and text books being used. etc. But overall, I think most of the teachers here are not getting a fair shake.


Personally, I think things are getting better for China's foreign teachers - not worse. Why? Because less and less people are coming to China to teach and more and more teachers already here are getting better paying, non-teaching jobs because of this http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2012/12/14/china_foreign_teachers_exploited_and_abused_by_scams

So for those of us who remain teaching in China, we have more leverage to demand higher pay and more benefits since schools and recruiters must now deal with growing demand and shrinking supply. We'd be crazy not to take advantage of this situation.


You may be right mate but most expat teachers in China are not astute enough to track this sort of thing and are wide asleep in their comfort zone. This would be a great time for teachers to start demanding 250 an hour. The agents are already stabbing each other in the backs and the HR people at the schools are freaking out trying to find replacement teachers for all the derelicts and midnight runners.

According to this link there are 9,100 less teachers in China this year than last:

http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2013/09/11/cftu_reports_18_drop_in_esl_china_foreign_teachers_in_2013

I'm no rocket scientist but I think the laws of supply and demand are in play here - and now.
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 2157

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 79% of China Foreign Teachers Want Out... Reply with quote

Bolt wrote:


According to this link there are 9,100 less teachers in China this year than last:

http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2013/09/11/cftu_reports_18_drop_in_esl_china_foreign_teachers_in_2013

I'm no rocket scientist but I think the laws of supply and demand are in play here - and now.


Not credible. I know where I work there are at least 2x as many teachers as last year.

Do you really believe that the semester that just started already has concrete nation-wide numbers out?

Another problem is you talk about supply and demand. Could it be that supply outweighs demand. Outside of public school systems nobody really needs English lessons.
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roadwalker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1532
Location: Ch

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 79% of China Foreign Teachers Want Out... Reply with quote

Bolt wrote:
NP1970 wrote:
B4UGO wrote:
I just read the 2012 annual report and Teacher Survey of the China Foreign Teachers Union and amongst the many stats (collected from 500 random teachers in China from K1-High Schools). The majority (79%) said they would never have become a teacher if they knew what was in store for them. When you read the rest of the report you can see why they are so pissed off (too many scams, ID thefts, unpaid overtime, and 52% said they were even cheated by their own schools!) I also found these two articles on line... http://www.zimbio.com/Beijing+China/articles/CWDbD8FdBB9/China+Foreign+Teachers+Say+Low+Salaries+Insulting which talks about the crappy salaries paid to foreign teachers in China and this one talks about about the scams: http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2012/12/14/china_foreign_teachers_exploited_and_abused_by_scams

Personally, I have seen some teachers threatened by Principals when they try to quit. Teachers are told they will be blacklisted, not get their last pay check, nor their release letter. They wanted to quite because they were being forced to work on one of their two days off for free. I faked a family emergency back home and bailed out of there too. Now I am lucky and found a school that has been 80% fair and honest with me, which is much better than most places. Because Chinese people think "saving money" is admirable, a little bit of cheating means nothing to them I suppose. Here are some more stats that I cut and pasted from the CFTU report:

1. 79% regret choosing the teaching profession in China and will either find new jobs or leave China after their current contracts expire.

2. 8% report that their current employment is �fine�, 7% � acceptable� and 6% �tolerable�.

3. 84% report being either deliberately misled or tricked by agents that recruited them.

4. 52% of those surveyed report being swindled or cheated at least once in the last year by their own employer.

5. 78% were unaware of protections offered by China�s labor laws.

6. 32% report being �pressured� or �extorted� for money in exchange for release letters from employers.

7. 87% report unpaid overtime hours were forced upon them by employers.

8. 64% report working under the provisions of a written contract.
9. 36% report working without a written contract.

10. 57% report that their contracts were breached �often� and �23% seldom� and 2% �never�.

11. 83% report not getting the visa support they were promised upon hiring.

12. 72% report having their work schedule changed more than once a month.

13. 89% report regular unapproved use of their personal images without knowledge, consent, nor compensation.

14. 62% report having their proprietary lesson plans or videos stolen or �hijacked� by employers.

15. 73% report regular violation of copyright and trademark violations by their employer.

16. 38% report not receiving their last paycheck from their former employers.

17. 22% report being sexually harassed by their employers or Chinese staff of employers.

18. 23% report that they trust their employers, 60% report that they do not, and 18% abstained.

There was a handful of positive stuff in the stats about TA support and text books being used. etc. But overall, I think most of the teachers here are not getting a fair shake.


Personally, I think things are getting better for China's foreign teachers - not worse. Why? Because less and less people are coming to China to teach and more and more teachers already here are getting better paying, non-teaching jobs because of this http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2012/12/14/china_foreign_teachers_exploited_and_abused_by_scams

So for those of us who remain teaching in China, we have more leverage to demand higher pay and more benefits since schools and recruiters must now deal with growing demand and shrinking supply. We'd be crazy not to take advantage of this situation.


You may be right mate but most expat teachers in China are not astute enough to track this sort of thing and are wide asleep in their comfort zone. This would be a great time for teachers to start demanding 250 an hour. The agents are already stabbing each other in the backs and the HR people at the schools are freaking out trying to find replacement teachers for all the derelicts and midnight runners.

According to this link there are 9,100 less teachers in China this year than last:

http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2013/09/11/cftu_reports_18_drop_in_esl_china_foreign_teachers_in_2013

I'm no rocket scientist but I think the laws of supply and demand are in play here - and now.


Bolt, NP1970, B4UGO; I think we both know that these statsticics are just made up. I did a survey and 75% of the respondents agreed with me. The other guy was kinda dumb.
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