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Explaining idioms to intermediate/upper levels
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9390
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What do you all feel about phrasal verbs?


I am blessed in that I can usually avoid working with these hideous items.

At least, though, many phrasal verbs are in common use in daily English - hence, not a total waste of time by any means.

However, I don't know how to have students address them other than memorization in context, honestly.


Last edited by spiral78 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12390
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Teacher in Rome,

Arrggghhh, phrasal verbs - another area that can't really be "taught" (similar in that respect to propositions and whether a verb {etc.} is followed by a gerund or an infinitive).

The two important aspects, of course, are the literal versus figurative meanings ( He picked me up and dropped me off) and whether or not they're "separable." And there's no "rule" for the latter.

About all one can do is give students lists of some of the more commonly-used ones. As with prepositions, it's a matter of developing a "smart ear" and a "smart eye" (hmm, that just doesn't sound/look right), acquired only through lots of reading/listening.


Regards,
John

P.S. Well, actually, there may be ONE "rule." Can anyone think of a three-word phrasal (e.g. take care of) that's "separable?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9091
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of phrasal verb rules. Preposition or adverb? Affects stress.

Hic!
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9091
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I could be just suffering from mild alcoholic derangement...
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1212

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
hideous items


Actually, I quite like them! Whereas I often find those longer Latinate type verbs a bit pompous... I like the fact we have our own parallel informal language which neatly - and sometimes elegantly - gets meaning over in one syllable.

Johnslat: good point about separable / non-separables. I once read a CAE book that tried to explain all this and ended up more confused myself. I suppose it helps to say which category a phrasal verb comes under, but the problem is remembering when you need to.

I'm trying to see if I can come up with any 3-part phrasals which are inseparable. See if I can come up with any. Or even if I can come them up with. Come up them with ...

Um, no.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9091
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run someone out of town?

Just kidding. As far as I know, all phrasal verbs with two particles are indeed inseparable.
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