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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:27 am Post subject:

JerkyBoy wrote:

ssjup81 wrote:

Seems with your experience, you'd be suited for Eikaiwa work.

This sounds like a useful insight. Please elaborate.

I don't see myself working for a low-end chain or teaching kindergarten songs and chants. I've done it but don't want to now. My last job was tutoring Chinese students at a university in England (6000 yen/ hr).

I repeat, you are not qualified for Japanese universities, so get that out of your head.

Quote:

The other thing is I would prefer 8-4/ 9-5 as this frees up the evenings.

The only job that affords you such a schedule is as an ALT in a public school. Eikaiwas run noon to 9pm.

But you've been on this board long enough to know that!

You are not in much of a position to be picky.

ssjup81

Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:52 am Post subject:

JerkyBoy wrote:

ssjup81 wrote:

If it is okay to ask, why only Tokyo? Maybe if you checked out other areas of the country you'll have better luck and opportunities.

For the same reasons a Japanese would want to live in London.

Other than Tokyo, I am interested in Sendai.

Am I "wrong" somehow?

No, you're not wrong. I didn't even mean to imply it. I was just curious why you were being so narrow in your search. I'm sure it would be helpful too if you did apply to jobs and show to be open and flexible on where you go, but maybe mention your preference if asked.

For example, I'm currently living in a small town in Yamagata. I like the prefecture, though. My preferences are Yamagata City and Yonezawa City, but I also tell potenital employers that I'm open to the Tohoku region in a general sense. I don't have much of a desire to reside in a place in Tokyo or the Kanto region, or anywhere south of Kanto due weather, but if that's where the jobs are, of I'm offered one there, I'd more than likely take it until another opportunity comes along.

I'm in the middle of changing jobs and still pretty much looking. I have had some prospects, thankfully, but nothing fully concrete, as of the moment. I was offered an ALT position 250,000/month, but I have to drive. I don't have my license, just my int'l one that expires in late March. For the job I currently have, I haven't done any driving at all, so I have about a month and a half to get a car and start practicing driving so I can hurry and take the test to get my license and from what I've heard, foreigners tend to fail it on their first try, due to the test being very meticulous. That aside, my contract with the eikaiwa that I'm currently working for ends next month (thank god!).

ssjup81 wrote:

Seems with your experience, you'd be suited for Eikaiwa work.

Quote:

This sounds like a useful insight. Please elaborate.

Well, you have experience teaching ESL and so many years. You'd probably do well at a very nice eikaiwa, as I'm sure you know many good tricks and methods having taught it for 10 years.

Quote:

I don't see myself working for a low-end chain or teaching kindergarten songs and chants. I've done it but don't want to now. My last job was tutoring Chinese students at a university in England (6000 yen/ hr).

That's pretty cool, but unfortunately, I don't think you'd qualify for work in a Japanese university.

Quote:

The other thing is I would prefer 8-4/ 9-5 as this frees up the evenings.

There's Coco's. I'm not too sure about it, but I think it has a good reputation. They offer hours like that. The only other type of place that would offer those types of hours is ALT work, since it's public school work. You may have hours like 8:00 - 4:00 or 8:30 - 4:30, etc. When I was an ALT my first time in Japan, my hours were 8:30 - 4:30...or either 8:30 - 4:00 Monday - Friday. Something like that. With an eikaiwa job, you could end up with hours like 12:00 - 9:00.

The job I currently have is a bit hectic, despite being a four-day workweek.

Tuesday - Friday 10:00 - 9:00 (sometimes later). I have a break from 2:00 - 3:00 (that's being cut, though, seemingly on Tuesdays and have to work during that hour, ) and a break from 5:10 - 6:30 (which I no longer have on Fridays, technically, as they booked a class for me from 4:45 - 5:25 and the students [as these are kids] usually don't leave until much later, as they're waiting on parents to pick them up, so even if I wanted to go out for a meal, I really can't, due to the lack of time).

That aside, another eikaiwa with a good reputation is the James English School, but...their positions are mostly in Tohoku, but I'm pretty sure they have Sendai positions too.

Quote:

I have worked for good language schools in the past - the British Council, IELTS/ 'study abroad' centres.

That's really good, but....still think you'd be relegated to either ALT or eikaiwa work, despite your credentials and experience.

Last edited by ssjup81 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

Pitarou

Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:57 am Post subject:

You mentioned that you want a job that won't involve working with kids, and will give you your evenings free. If you tell UK recruiters that, they won't hire you. You are well qualified for eikaiwa work, but that typically involves teaching 3-year-olds upwards and working in the evenings. ALT agencies boards of education prefer to hire people and then slot them in wherever they're needed. If you are likely to balk at teaching songs and dances to 7-year-olds, they won't be interested. You lack the minimum qualifications to work at a university. My advice is to take any job and then, once you have your work visa, you can start applying for jobs like this one.

JerkyBoy

Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:42 pm Post subject:

Pitarou wrote:

You mentioned that you want a job that won't involve working with kids, and will give you your evenings free. If you tell UK recruiters that, they won't hire you.

I never said I don't want to teach kids. I said "kindergarten". I have taught a lot of primary and even more secondary. I would find teaching Literature/ writing classes to SH more stimulating, though.

Pitarou wrote:

You are well qualified for eikaiwa work, but that typically involves teaching 3-year-olds upwards and working in the evenings.

Don't they have language schools just for adults/ university students/ those wanting to study overseas, in Japan?

Pitarou wrote:

ALT agencies boards of education prefer to hire people and then slot them in wherever they're needed. If you are likely to balk at teaching songs and dances to 7-year-olds, they won't be interested.

I can teach all age ranges but if I am better at teaching older children and I enjoy it more, doesn't it make sense for them to "slot" me in where I am a best fit? Or do they prefer you just to keep your mouth shut and nod/ bow?

Pitarou wrote:

My advice is to take any job and then, once you have your work visa, you can start applying for jobs like this one.

That is a very useful job lead. I'll save that for later. Thanks, dude.

macandcheese

Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 19

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject:

Pitarou wrote:

My advice is to take any job and then, once you have your work visa, you can start applying for jobs like this one.

Are you saying it's acceptable to break a contract and go elsewhere once you have a visa, if you're unable to find any other position abroad? (I'm not trying to put any words in your mouth -- I'm genuinely wondering if that's a bad a faux pas as I had thought it to be.)

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject:

JerkyBoy wrote:

I would find teaching Literature/ writing classes to SH more stimulating, though.

Good luck in finding a job that...

1) primarily has this instead of conversation classes, and
2) has any form of lit or writing courses at all.

In other words, don't expect it. Even for writing in SH, it amounts to little more than grammar translation (which is what the JTE teaches, not you), or single sentence construction.

JerkyBoy wrote:

Don't they have language schools just for adults/ university students/ those wanting to study overseas, in Japan?

They are a rarity nowadays. Such age people exist, but fewer and fewer J students are going overseas to study because they are afraid they will lose the valuable job hunting time for work back in Japan. Adults are often housewives and senior citizens and hopeless businessmen (who think they can actually master English by attending once a week and not doing any homework).

JerkyBoy wrote:

Pitarou wrote:

ALT agencies boards of education prefer to hire people and then slot them in wherever they're needed. If you are likely to balk at teaching songs and dances to 7-year-olds, they won't be interested.

It doesn't always come down to what makes sense here. It's more a matter of what they think is needed. Sometimes that means gender or age or nationality, over credentials.

dherres wrote:

Are you saying it's acceptable to break a contract and go elsewhere once you have a visa, if you're unable to find any other position abroad?

It happens. Is it "acceptable"? Depends on your point of view. You may have the next employer wondering how you got a visa without showing the work experience here and whether you will cut out on him, too. Plus, the one you ditched will have already set up housing, students, and a curriculum for you, so they will lose face. Some people will say, "Who cares? They are all scum employers anyway, so screw them before they screw you!" I think that's a bad attitude, and not all employers are out to screw you anyway. Plus, it perpetuates a bad image of foreign teachers, sometimes leading to extensive legalese in contracts including penalties for minor infringements. Snowball effect for the next foreign teacher, in other words.

Pitarou

Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:08 pm Post subject:

Given the current climate and your lack of visa, your expectations are a little unrealistic. Stop trying to argue the point with us, and reassess your situation. Either change your expectations, look elsewhere, or be prepared to spend a long time looking for the right job.

OneJoelFifty

Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:21 pm Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

JerkyBoy wrote:

I would find teaching Literature/ writing classes to SH more stimulating, though.

My friend has a job teaching exactly that. It's a fairly prestigious/expensive school, and he teaches literature to returnee students that have been abroad to study. Even then though, he has to teach some conversation classes to non-returnee students.

Edit - And I should add that it's quite rare, and competition for those positions will be fierce. Many applicants will have plenty of experience teaching in Japan.

HLJHLJ

Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:34 am Post subject:

JerkyBoy wrote:

Tried several but not getting anywhere. Westgate rejected me for the third time in 6 years and I can only assume I am only overqualified - this is what I have heard. Someone said to be in the know says they don't like to hire experienced teachers in case they ask too many questions and I have seen people post on these boards stating they were hired with 1 or 2 years' experience.

WG do hire people with minimal experience, but they also hire people with a lot more experience and qualifications than you have. They offered me a position even though I gave them a whole list of requirements with regard to hours, placement, etc. I turned them down anyway because I found something better, but I doubt they are rejecting you outright on the basis of being over qualified.

JerkyBoy

Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:27 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

But work experience and a degree aren't the only things employers use to judge whether you are qualified. Some give grammar tests. Many ask for demonstration lessons (and experience outside Japan may show how little you know of the way J learners learn). And, a lot of them will go on just your personality and perceived chemistry with staff & students.

I see. They sometimes set grammar tests and demos, etc. in Thailand. In HCMC, demos are pretty much standard hiring procedure. This is straightforward.

Nationals of different countries are different. Just as Japanese learners have a specific profile, Chinese learners or Thais or Vietnamese or whatever also do. The Japanese are not a special case.

Glenski wrote:

Figure the typical entry level job will have 20-50 applicants. This is what I've been hearing on the street, and sometimes that figure is much higher, closer to 100.

That's a bit of a concern. Does that mean I may be forced further afield than Tokyo?

Glenski wrote:

Yes, there are tons of privately owned language schools, called eikaiwa. Pretty basic research would tell you that.

I don't that. I mean the word 'eikaiwa' seems to carry negative connotations whereas 'language school' is neutral in tone - for example, the British Council is a language school more or less.

Glenski wrote:

You're trying IEC and Heart? Ugh. I wouldn't, and you should have already gotten red flags about them.

I am also being told "beggars can't be choosers". Which is it?

Glenski wrote:

Waseda U? Nope. They won't touch you with just a BA degree.

I didn't say they would. I'm just saying it's ironic that I can teach Waseda students at a top UK university like Sheffield, yet have to compete vigorously for entry level jobs in Japan.

Incidentally, I've been offered a job at an Italian university with just a BA, but the pay is very low.

JerkyBoy

Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:30 am Post subject:

ssjup81 wrote:

Seems with your experience, you'd be suited for Eikaiwa work.

What makes you say that?

JerkyBoy

Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:50 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

I repeat, you are not qualified for Japanese universities, so get that out of your head.

I never said that I was. You wrongly inferred this.

I have just made the point that over the last few years I have taught in 8 universities in three countries, so why would I want to teach songs and chants in an eikaiwa? That would be taking a backward step. It's not that I don't enjoy teaching children, it's that I've done more complex/ challenging work and want to continue in that vein.

Glenski wrote:

The only job that affords you such a schedule is as an ALT in a public school. Eikaiwas run noon to 9pm. But you've been on this board long enough to know that!

Yes, it was pretty clear from the outset that ALT work was the best I could hope for/ what I should aim for in terms of my first contract in Japan. In many ways, I would like to see the inside of the Japanese state school system, as I would find it fascinating. So I'm very accepting from that perspective.

Glenski wrote:

You are not in much of a position to be picky.

So I should work for Heart or ICE?

JerkyBoy

Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:56 am Post subject:

Pitarou wrote:

Given the current climate and your lack of visa, your expectations are a little unrealistic. Stop trying to argue the point with us, and reassess your situation.

Either change your expectations, look elsewhere, or be prepared to spend a long time looking for the right job.

What are my expectations?

I am looking at the short-term: ALT work in Tokyo (hopefully, Tokyo).
Longer term: something else.

JerkyBoy

Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:04 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

In other words, don't expect it. Even for writing in SH, it amounts to little more than grammar translation (which is what the JTE teaches, not you), or single sentence construction.

They are a rarity nowadays. Such age people exist, but fewer and fewer J students are going overseas to study because they are afraid they will lose the valuable job hunting time for work back in Japan. Adults are often housewives and senior citizens and hopeless businessmen (who think they can actually master English by attending once a week and not doing any homework).

It doesn't always come down to what makes sense here. It's more a matter of what they think is needed. Sometimes that means gender or age or nationality, over credentials.

Thank you Glenski for your many contributions. This is all useful information.

JerkyBoy

Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:16 am Post subject:

HLJHLJ wrote:

Just what I heard from a friend - that they prefer novices over seasoned professionals because they don't like people questioning their set up/ methodology. I guess this accusation is without foundation then.

I have taught at 6 universities in the UK and some of these would be of a higher international standing than WG's clients, I am guessing. Moreover, the nature of the WG programmes is simple in that they are conversation classes.

I don't have an MA or MA TESOL but I think the importance of these qualifications is overstated. Maybe in Japan, if it is big on credentialism, such qualifications may be seen as indispensable. I don't mean that I am overqualified in the sense of qualifications - I am clearly not. I mean that I know that they hire novices of one or two years teaching experience, while I have well over 10 years and have taught at 6 UK universities, some of which are top schools.

It makes no sense to me. Perhaps I will ask them for feedback on why I was rejected. My answers to their screening questions were sound and I spent a lot of time preparing them.

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