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wrong if ESL teacher does not get $2,000usd per month?
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chica88



Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: wrong if ESL teacher does not get $2,000usd per month? Reply with quote

I was reading this article last night on line.
It was posted by a dave esl person.
All of the info was on a blog.
I can't find it again now.


Anyway, it stated the following:


1. if ESL teachers in China don't get paid at least 2,000 usd per month they are getting ripped off.

2. more than 79% of all ESL teachers in China are unhappy because they don't get paid enough.

3. Chinese teachers make much more than recruiters or the internet would have us think.

4. Recruiters take as much as 40% of our salary.


What do you think?
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrong. All of it.
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MisterButtkins



Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1215

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you still here?
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I mean if
Quote:
more than 79% of all ESL teachers in China are unhappy
, then why don't they leave?
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rogerwilco



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1171

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number 3 is correct, and number 4 can be correct depending upon the agency.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number 3 might be correct for Chinese teachers with experience and advanced degrees, which many of them have. It is not true for Chinese teachers just starting out with a basic teaching degree or with only a few years on the job.

Number 4, recruiters are usually paid a one time fee by the school (they don't get any of the teacher's salary) for finding a teacher. Recruiters are sometimes guilty of lying about work conditions to a teacher but once they get the person to the school and are paid they're on their way. Getting cheated by an agent is more true or common if one signs with an agent and did little or no research before signing, is desperate for a job, or is easily suckered. If you don't want to be shorted on salary then your best bet is to know the basic salary range for a particular job. This info is openly available.

Example of a likely scenario: Most of us know the basic bare bones college job pays 5000 per month. A newbie comes along but isn't willing to look for their own job, don't really know what they're doing or getting into, but they want one of those jobs. So they sign with an agent who finds a job for them, but are told the job only pays 3000 a month. Not knowing any better they accept, only to find out later that other people are getting 40% more than they are.

If the agent did lie and told the teacher the job pays 5000 without mentioning their cut, and start making promises of more money to come later, then its time to cut your losses before they start mounting. Problem is for whatever reason many people believe the endless promises that the situation is going to change and they never leave the bad situation. Agent's fault for lying, someone elses fault for sticking around losing more money. Do your research and don't get burned.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1. if ESL teachers in China don't get paid at least 2,000 usd per month they are getting ripped off.

2. more than 79% of all ESL teachers in China are unhappy because they don't get paid enough.

3. Chinese teachers make much more than recruiters or the internet would have us think.

4. Recruiters take as much as 40% of our salary.


Number one is a living wage in China and even then this may be consider to little, as to getting ripped off, it is an individual who calculates his self worth.

Number two likely can be applied to occupations across the board.

Number three is kind of ridiculous. Recruiters are middle men and who believes the middle man.

Number four would be on a case to case basis, much like property agents, the % is in the negotiations. I recently moved and negotiated a two year lease at 300rmb lower than advertised and getting a 40% reduction in the agents fee. It is all up to the turn of the deal.
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fred13331



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: wrong if ESL teacher does not get $2,000usd per month? Reply with quote

First of all, the poster is promoting the website you were linked to. He has several aliases, all promoting similar websites. He is also, apparently, a fugitive from US law - some other Dave's members have exposed this.


1. if ESL teachers in China don't get paid at least 2,000 usd per month they are getting ripped off.

I actually agree with this but I am in a minority. This equates to about 12,500 RMB. I think that SHOULD be a minimum standard, but it is not, never will be and the majority are happy to earn less, so....

2. more than 79% of all ESL teachers in China are unhappy because they don't get paid enough.

Most people everywhere want to be paid more. This stat is meaningless and probably made up.

3. Chinese teachers make much more than recruiters or the internet would have us think.

Recruiters lie. All of them, all the time. Chinese teachers salaries are augmented with grey money we never get to see - even if their official salary MIGHT be lower

4. Recruiters take as much as 40% of our salary.

People who use recruiters need their heads examined. I have been offered numerous jobs which I had to turn down, as well as the jobs I took, and never ever used a recruiter
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bestteacher2012



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: wrong if ESL teacher does not get $2,000usd per month? Reply with quote

fred13331 wrote:
1. if ESL teachers in China don't get paid at least 2,000 usd per month they are getting ripped off.

I actually agree with this but I am in a minority. This equates to about 12,500 RMB. I think that SHOULD be a minimum standard, but it is not, never will be and the majority are happy to earn less, so....


And the teachers who are happy to accept less will argue that it's extremely cheap to live in China while their boss is driving around in his BMW.
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MisterButtkins



Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1215

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will never understand these people who think that we are supposed to get paid more just because the boss obviously makes a lot of money. You might as well say that Wal-Mart greeters should get paid more because Christie Walton is one of the richest women in the world. Or that nurses are underpaid because doctors are so rich. Or that limo drivers are underpaid because of how much money the people riding in their cars have. It makes absolutely no sense and is not, nor has it ever been, the way businesses are organized.
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redcard23



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, it also doesnt make sense to be suffering with low wages when it is obvious that the company can afford to pay more.
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vikeologist



Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 537

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redcard23 wrote:
However, it also doesnt make sense to be suffering with low wages when it is obvious that the company can afford to pay more.


It sounds like you think the options are either to work for a low wage or a high wage. Actually the options with many schools are to work for a low wage, or they'll find someone else who will.

Employees in China are generally considered expendable. I think that attitude's a mistake, but a lot of businesses are successful paying low wages, so they're not inclined to change.

That doesn't necessarily make them bad employers.

Also, 'suffering with low wages'; drama queen alert!

I know someone who was very underpaid for a long time, given that they were almost singlehandedly making the owner of the school incredibly rich, because they were fab at their job. If you are really truly invaluable, and absolutely crucial to the businesses' success, then hopefully eventually you'll get your reward.
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doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 665
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redcard23 wrote:
However, it also doesnt make sense to be suffering with low wages when it is obvious that the company can afford to pay more.


If people are genuinely 'suffering' from low wages they would move on. I have never, ever, ever met an FT in China who was suffering, it's a ridiculous idea in my opinion.

Also, as Mr B says above, the reality is schools are a business. Every business with a boss and an employee could afford to pay the employee more, if the boss took less. To use the WalMart example again, if the shareholders dividend was cut, the employees could enjoy higher salaries. It's not likely to happen, at least in my lifetime.

I get so tired of hearing teachers here whining about their low pay, when the reality is the majority are making enough to enjoy a much better lifestyle than they could in their home countries. If that where not the case, then why on earth would they still be here, especially since a lot of them whine constantly about a whole lot of other things in China. If it's not the money that's keeping them here then what is? The fact is that most of us are doing okay. The people I know personally that struggle month to month with money are the ones that go out three or four times a week to expat hang outs, never cook at home and generally spend money like the world ends tomorrow. Good luck to them, they earned it, but for god sake either stop complaining that the Chinese don't pay you enough and face up to the reality that capitalism is just another word for dog eat dog.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doogsville wrote:
The people I know personally that struggle month to month with money are the ones that go out three or four times a week to expat hang outs, never cook at home and generally spend money like the world ends tomorrow.

Yep, most people don't have an income problem. They have a spending problem.
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They have a spending problem


Dead on. I've saved far more in China than anywhere else in the world. That's why I keep coming back. I have to get out every couple of years just to clear my brain, but I usually spend a year or so breaking even somewhere else.
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