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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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 Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| MisterButtkins wrote: |
| I will never understand these people who think that we are supposed to get paid more just because the boss obviously makes a lot of money. You might as well say that Wal-Mart greeters should get paid more because Christie Walton is one of the richest women in the world. Or that nurses are underpaid because doctors are so rich. Or that limo drivers are underpaid because of how much money the people riding in their cars have. It makes absolutely no sense and is not, nor has it ever been, the way businesses are organized. |
Never heard of the NBA or NFL or NHL then?
Wal-Mart greeters are a dime a dozen. Anyone can be a greeter.
Not so for foreigners 'teaching' in China. That's why recruiters even exist in the first place.
I made piles of money towards the end of my stay in China because I learned the game.
It's a secret no one wants you to know.... Too much money in other peoples hands and they don't like sharing. |
We're not in the NBA. We're in the Papua New Guinea Sunday Basketball League, and we're usng footballs.
No denying that there's always the opportunity for individuals to make a fair amount of money. There's a lot of money slopping around, and some of it can definitely make it our way.
But this thread is about the idea that all the english teachers (many of whom bear in mind do not have the skills or qualifications to teach English anywhere else in the world) should be entitled to a ludicrously high salary.
Its about the idea that they are the reason why school owners are making large amounts of money. They are not. The language mills and other schools are largely making money despite many of us. They are so good at marketing, presentation and wool pulling over eyes that the general mediocrity of foreign teachers doesn't derail their profits.
It's very difficult for foreign teachers to open schools themselves, but suppose we could. Do those of you who think that you should have your nose in the trough really think that you could do it?
If money is your main objective, plus you have the skills and determination, then it is possible to earn good money. The idea that we're all entitled to it, on the basis of having English as a first language and a degree, is ridiculous. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
...Never heard of the NBA or NFL or NHL then?
Wal-Mart greeters are a dime a dozen. Anyone can be a greeter.
Not so for foreigners 'teaching' in China. That's why recruiters even exist in the first place.
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engrish teachers are a jiao a dozen. anyone can be an engrish teacher.
that's why 'frank' from ghana, who couldn't string 3 engrish words together
properly, was teaching engrish at two schools in kunming....and why any
unwashed, dreadlock-sporting backpacker finding himself lost and mao-less
on the banana pancake trail can pick up an engrish teachin' gig.
if ya wanna continue with the nba/nfl/nhl, you might say engrish teachers
are the ones in the stands yelling "peanuts, git yer peanuts here...."
the unlucky few might be dressed as a mascot (think disney engrish)
to entertain the crowd, or to drum up business at a shopping mall.......
as to why recruiters exist, you may as well ask why parasites exist. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:37 am Post subject: |
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and why any
unwashed, dreadlock-sporting backpacker finding himself lost and mao-less
on the banana pancake trail can pick up an engrish teachin' gig. |
"trustfundfarians"? Out for a little world look-see before taking their rightful place in Daddy's firm. |
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Lancy Bloom
Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:58 am Post subject: |
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THank you recruiters for telling us how llittle we need to live on while teaching in China. Yes beer is extremely expensive in China. A bottle of beer runs about 1 dollar american. I personaly dring 2000 bottles a month. I smoke over thirty packs of cigarettes too. A pack goes for 5 rmb or about 80 cents. You can easily get into difficutly financialy with these sinful habits.
You are passing off western arguments on China which doesn't have sin taxes.
You have no business telling people their worth. Especially since you are not English teachers. You are hear to exploit naive ENglish teachers into thinking they will have a wonderful experience teaching English in the Motherland.
We need to compare salaries of people doing the same job in other countries. We need to compare real expenses , like lodging and food in other countries. We need to look at the cost of obtaining a reputable degree to teach English and get away from this insipid argument of how the teachers in China are not or good moral fibre. Personaly I have not met these sordid ENglish teaching types that are causing people on this forum to refute a proper salary. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| I personaly dring 2000 bottles a month |
Explains a lot. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Lancy Bloom wrote: |
| ....Yes beer is extremely expensive in China. A bottle of beer runs about 1 dollar american. I personaly dring 2000 bottles a month. .... |
ah, now i see why you're so bitter; shouldn't be buying your beers at those
fancy-pants gentlemens clubs! you can get a liu-bao of decent local brew at
the supermarket for 11.99 RMB. that's less'n 2 dollars american. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Lancy Bloom wrote: |
We need to compare salaries of people doing the same job in other countries. We need to compare real expenses , like lodging and food in other countries. |
+1
And I'll start Lancy. I have first-hand experience of contracts and conditions in three countries.
Teaching EFL in the UK. 120 RMB per hour for classroom teaching. Privates from 60 - 170 RMB per hour. No housing included. No utilities included. No travel bonus or flight money included. Due to nature of temp contracts, no holiday pay included. Degree preferred, CELTA / Trinity required for the stated salary, 90 RMB without. Price of cigarettes 70 RMB
Teaching EFL in Poland with a large chain school Monthly salary 3800 RMB. 22 teaching hours (some off site) + office hours. No utilities. No flights. 4 weeks holiday pay. Teachers need degree and CELTA / Trinity Grade B or above. Price of cigarettes 25 RMB
Teaching in China
... nuff said. Im not going to write a China comparison ... i) We can all compare to our own packages. ii) The phones are ringing red-hot in my recruitment office and two of my foreign teachers have escaped from the cages I keep them in so I have to lay a banana trail down to tempt them back. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Teaching EFL in the UK. 120 RMB per hour for classroom teaching. Privates from 60 - 170 RMB per hour. No housing included. No utilities included. No travel bonus or flight money included. Due to nature of temp contracts, no holiday pay included. |
Personal experience? Seems a little low. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Entry level Billy. Pretty much all the seasonal work hovers around the �10-12 per hour touch. First timers at the BC approved language schools start at the same too, but they'll often pay an hour for prep time.
Have seen TEFL jobs in London starting at �10.50 an hour!
The really solid EFL jobs in H.E would appear to require really solid qualifications and experience. DELTA minimum. Few people in China would qualify Id guess, and very rarely are these jobs full-time. Thats been my experience anyway.
Just looking at an advertised job with a private school very close to my UK home. �465 a week, but teaching 22.5 hours plus office hours / testing / reports / airport collections and departures etc. Looks like a full time 40 hours a week gig to me ... so around the �12 an hour is fair. (and Ill just add that whilst �465 a week would be lovely ... this is for a job that lasts between 3 - 10 weeks. Its certainly not common to pick up a job like that permanently IMO) |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| Have seen TEFL jobs in London starting at �10.50 an hour! |
When I thought about it, I realized this could be accurate. Working for a British university in China has been alright in the past but now that the pound has fallen, the salary is shrinking into a "devalued" paycheck and I have considered going to work for the local sponsoring uni.
A reckon another problem for UK pay would be the ability of Euro-union workers to seek employment there. When I was in London this October, most of the employees I encountered were not British. Anyway with the cost of (LiL)Living in London weighing in heavenly, employment in the PRC seems to be comforting.
It has been one of the complaints I have heard from co workers on the other side, that they cannot afford to live in London without shared expenses. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| MisterButtkins wrote: |
| I will never understand these people who think that we are supposed to get paid more just because the boss obviously makes a lot of money. You might as well say that Wal-Mart greeters should get paid more because Christie Walton is one of the richest women in the world. Or that nurses are underpaid because doctors are so rich. Or that limo drivers are underpaid because of how much money the people riding in their cars have. It makes absolutely no sense and is not, nor has it ever been, the way businesses are organized. |
Never heard of the NBA or NFL or NHL then?
Wal-Mart greeters are a dime a dozen. Anyone can be a greeter. |
That's some of the most flawed insight I've seen on this forum. Since there are roughly 900 teams in college basketball, with an average of about 12-13 players per team, that means there are over 10,000 players per year eligible for the draft and the right to play in the NBA. Only 60 players (0.6% of 10,000) get drafted each year for a chance to take one of 360 available NBA jobs. So the NBA is for the truly elite and that's why they can negotiate revenue sharing and get paid big $ (even then many players only last a few years before their career is over). Becoming an ESL teacher on the other hand, allows one to step over a bar that's been set pretty frickin low meaning if you're white, breathing, and can speak English, you qualify and since this is true, we're a dime a dozen. Almost anyone can be an ESL teacher. Anyone who wants or expects those elite salaries - invest the time and effort into some real teaching creds. Anyone who feels "entitled" to higher salaries just because their boss or the owner of their company is rich is living in some kind of fairytale-land. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Anyone who wants or expects those elite salaries - invest the time and effort into some real teaching creds. |
Then you can work for peanuts in your homeland. |
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Lancy Bloom
Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| to put this to rest. I think 2,000 is a normal salary today in China. I do not believe that less pay equates to less work. In my 25 years of teaching it usually means the oppossite. Today rich Chinese don't know quality. So if you sell yourself cheap you will be looked at as not being good. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I think 2,000 is a normal salary today in China |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I broke my own rule. I had resolved not to respond to this sort of thing, but....... |
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