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wrong if ESL teacher does not get $2,000usd per month?
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dakelei



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 351
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
In my 25 years of teaching it usually means the oppossite.


Teaching what? I hope not English. Are we really supposed to take you seriously?

From 2004 to 2006 I taught ESL at home in the USA and earned around $2000 US a month. In New Jersey.

For 3 months in Shenzhen I worked at an (atrocious) "international school" and earned, in theory, 12,500 RMB a month. For about a year in another city I free-lanced on an "F" visa and brought in 10 to 11 thousand a month while running around teaching every age level from kindergarten to adults. I even manged to hire an assistant. For the remainder of the almost 11 years I've been here altogether my highest salary has been what I get now at my university, which is 7000. So, yes, it's "possible" to earn 2000US a month in China if money is what you're after. But, to me at least, it isn't worth the hassle. Expecting 2000US if you're new to the country is just absurd.
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^This.

Everyday I'm hustlin'.

Cool

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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Mr. English



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where the myth on this website that Chinese teachers are well paid came from I do not know, but it is that, a myth. They are poorly paid, red-envelope money included. If they work for a government school they have a typical government job: kick back, do little, benefits at the end of the career are decent for what can be expected in China, and they are poorly paid. If they work for a private employer they actually do something and are also poorly paid.

Recruiters? An extremely competitive industry that is also poorly paid, if paid at all. The first job I had in China, in 2007, I got through a recruiter via the internet; I was in Laos when she recruited me. In 2009 I actually met her here in Guangzhou face-to-face. She told me that she left that agency later in 2007 and did not get paid for her last 6 months of work.

Foreign teachers? I freelance in Guangzhou. I average about 225 RMB per hour for one-to-one tutoring; make something over 20,000 a month; my income slowly but steadily rises. People who claim to make 250 per hour and up in tier 2 or 3 cities, I have read such claims on this site, are up to their ears in it. Most of my classes are for two hours, and most of my students meet with me once a week (though some meet more often than this). 1800 RMB per month is roughly half the average Guangzhou salary, and Guangzhou is of course one of the four (or perhaps five or six, depending on who you ask) tier 1 cities. To average more than 225 per hour you have to have a helluva business.

You can make decent money here, but expect to spend some time developing the business. Recruiting: Go somewhere else to do this; the Chinese who do this are not doing so well; you will do worse.
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jibbs



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

$2000 USD/month is pretty good in China for a single person, at least. I don't know anyone who is saving $1000 a month easily in Canada. Not one person I can think of does this. They may be making up to $100,000 a year, and even after 10 to 20 years will have maybe 20 grand in the bank. This partly is just what I imagine. I could be wrong.

But that $2000 is not entirely unobtainable in China. And that $1000 per month in the bank can be done. The people making $5000 or more a month in our home countries, somehow they can hardly save anything. So, if ya can, be careful, and stash some cash.
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ecubyrd



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibbs wrote:
$2000 USD/month is pretty good in China for a single person, at least. I don't know anyone who is saving $1000 a month easily in Canada. Not one person I can think of does this. They may be making up to $100,000 a year, and even after 10 to 20 years will have maybe 20 grand in the bank. This partly is just what I imagine. I could be wrong.

But that $2000 is not entirely unobtainable in China. And that $1000 per month in the bank can be done. The people making $5000 or more a month in our home countries, somehow they can hardly save anything. So, if ya can, be careful, and stash some cash.


^ this (applied to the States). I'm looking to bank $2000 per month in savings this year. That wasn't a consideration working there even when I worked in management for a Fortune 500 company.

To cut to the chase; build up your credentials/qualifications and you can do well here.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3896
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecubyrd wrote:
jibbs wrote:
$2000 USD/month is pretty good in China for a single person, at least. I don't know anyone who is saving $1000 a month easily in Canada. Not one person I can think of does this. They may be making up to $100,000 a year, and even after 10 to 20 years will have maybe 20 grand in the bank. This partly is just what I imagine. I could be wrong.

But that $2000 is not entirely unobtainable in China. And that $1000 per month in the bank can be done. The people making $5000 or more a month in our home countries, somehow they can hardly save anything. So, if ya can, be careful, and stash some cash.


^ this (applied to the States). I'm looking to bank $2000 per month in savings this year. That wasn't a consideration working there even when I worked in management for a Fortune 500 company.

To cut to the chase; build up your credentials/qualifications and you can do well here.



Actually it can be done in the United States. However the social pressure to have a new car with a loan, mortgage, etc. is difficult for a lot of people to break from and save money instead.
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ecubyrd



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZer wrote:
ecubyrd wrote:
jibbs wrote:
$2000 USD/month is pretty good in China for a single person, at least. I don't know anyone who is saving $1000 a month easily in Canada. Not one person I can think of does this. They may be making up to $100,000 a year, and even after 10 to 20 years will have maybe 20 grand in the bank. This partly is just what I imagine. I could be wrong.

But that $2000 is not entirely unobtainable in China. And that $1000 per month in the bank can be done. The people making $5000 or more a month in our home countries, somehow they can hardly save anything. So, if ya can, be careful, and stash some cash.


^ this (applied to the States). I'm looking to bank $2000 per month in savings this year. That wasn't a consideration working there even when I worked in management for a Fortune 500 company.

To cut to the chase; build up your credentials/qualifications and you can do well here.



Actually it can be done in the United States. However the social pressure to have a new car with a loan, mortgage, etc. is difficult for a lot of people to break from and save money instead.


Yes, you are right about the possibilities and expenditures there. I make roughly the same here as I did there, yet my savings there was next to nothing when I last lived in the States 8 years ago. It can be done, but it is infinitely easier for me to save in Asia. The wife and I have a 10 year plan from now (sooner if we have a child) to leave her home country and go back to mine. Even with our savings we are going to have to continue to work hard back in my home country until retirement age. That's the nature of things if you aren't a silver spooner, I suppose.
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fred13331



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. English wrote:


I average about 225 RMB per hour for one-to-one tutoring;

People who claim to make 250 per hour and up in tier 2 or 3 cities, I have read such claims on this site, are up to their ears in it.


To average more than 225 per hour you have to have a helluva business.

.

This always amuses me - I know people in 2nd tier cities who make this kind of money - they are not up to their ears in anything. The attitude that 'noone can possibly be doing better than me'' is just absurd.

225 in GZ is ok. I have a full time job in GZ, and my 'extras' come in at 200, 220, 250, 255 and 300. I know guys who get more. 350, even 450 for lsat. 500 for scientific english in a hospital.

You know the students pay 500 - 600 at training centers for one on one right? They are willing to pay that, surely they should pay you half.

My 200 / 220 are long time students, if they bring a new friend, or I find new students elsewhere, my new minimum is 250. People are making more than me, people are making more than you. Its ok. Accept it
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rogerwilco



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1543

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fred13331 wrote:

This always amuses me - I know people in 2nd tier cities who make this kind of money - they are not up to their ears in anything. The attitude that 'noone can possibly be doing better than me'' is just absurd.



I agree. I asked for and received 250RMB an hour for tutoring while I was in Anhui.
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ecubyrd



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fred13331 wrote:
Mr. English wrote:


I average about 225 RMB per hour for one-to-one tutoring;

People who claim to make 250 per hour and up in tier 2 or 3 cities, I have read such claims on this site, are up to their ears in it.


To average more than 225 per hour you have to have a helluva business.

.

This always amuses me - I know people in 2nd tier cities who make this kind of money - they are not up to their ears in anything. The attitude that 'noone can possibly be doing better than me'' is just absurd.

225 in GZ is ok. I have a full time job in GZ, and my 'extras' come in at 200, 220, 250, 255 and 300. I know guys who get more. 350, even 450 for lsat. 500 for scientific english in a hospital.

You know the students pay 500 - 600 at training centers for one on one right? They are willing to pay that, surely they should pay you half.

My 200 / 220 are long time students, if they bring a new friend, or I find new students elsewhere, my new minimum is 250. People are making more than me, people are making more than you. Its ok. Accept it


I'm with you fred on the absurdity thing. Lots of posters here seem to hate the fact that people can and do better than them.

As far as the "extra" income thing goes: I'm in a tier 1 city albeit, but if I chose to do the extra classes that are available to me I'd bank 1000-1500 for 3 hours at a time teaching my wife's doctor co-workers (2-3 of them). That isn't great according to some on here, but it certainly isn't peanuts either. I make enough at my normal job and value my time, so I don't do extras. It is good to know that I could and how much additional income that would bring in, however.
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fred13331



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecubyrd wrote:
fred13331 wrote:
Mr. English wrote:


I average about 225 RMB per hour for one-to-one tutoring;

People who claim to make 250 per hour and up in tier 2 or 3 cities, I have read such claims on this site, are up to their ears in it.


To average more than 225 per hour you have to have a helluva business.

.

This always amuses me - I know people in 2nd tier cities who make this kind of money - they are not up to their ears in anything. The attitude that 'noone can possibly be doing better than me'' is just absurd.

225 in GZ is ok. I have a full time job in GZ, and my 'extras' come in at 200, 220, 250, 255 and 300. I know guys who get more. 350, even 450 for lsat. 500 for scientific english in a hospital.

You know the students pay 500 - 600 at training centers for one on one right? They are willing to pay that, surely they should pay you half.

My 200 / 220 are long time students, if they bring a new friend, or I find new students elsewhere, my new minimum is 250. People are making more than me, people are making more than you. Its ok. Accept it


I'm with you fred on the absurdity thing. Lots of posters here seem to hate the fact that people can and do better than them.

As far as the "extra" income thing goes: I'm in a tier 1 city albeit, but if I chose to do the extra classes that are available to me I'd bank 1000-1500 for 3 hours at a time teaching my wife's doctor co-workers (2-3 of them). That isn't great according to some on here, but it certainly isn't peanuts either. I make enough at my normal job and value my time, so I don't do extras. It is good to know that I could and how much additional income that would bring in, however.


If you say you can make 1500 for 3 hours, my reaction is kudos to you. I don't think you are lying. I don't understand what anyone has to gain by lying on an anonymous website. More to the point, what does anyone have to gain by accusations of lying on such a site? I just don't understand the mentality
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never really give a fig what others earn either. I also wonder why people might be so concerned with what I earn.

What I will say is what you can earn in things like privates and side work might be very location specific. As a result, people who do lots of private work in one place may have a tendency to disbelieve chatter about private work elsewhere. Hence the calling out.

My personal experience of privates is that during my last two contracts in China, I have never ever been approached, or been offered, any sort of private work of any kind whatsoever. Not once!

I dont live in an ex-pat bubble and tend to spend as much or more time with Chinese friends than foreign friends. I have a very standard south UK (and somewhat neutral) accent, and quite a soft and gentle teaching voice. I dress quite well (I am a Denim-Maniac after all) and I have quite a good teaching reputation within my location. Overall, I would say this should make me quite desirable, but private work just isnt going to fall into my lap methinks.

I think people sometimes dont recognise the diversity that exists in China. With regard to students paying 500 - 600 for a 1-1 in a training centre .... again, location specific. Where I am they pay that figure for 30 x 45 min classes (a full week) with 3 different FT's in a class of just 4 or 5 students.
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LarssonCrew



Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't disbelieve the figures quoted, but this is my take:

The average full time job will NOT work out at 200+ per hour. That's just from what I've seen, at 16 hours a week a uni job would have to pay 12000 a month to even get close to that...but most jobs are 5-6-7-8.

NORMAL families will not pay 300 an hour, they can go to a training school and buy a year package and pay 230-240 for one on one , why pay MORE than that to a teacher?

This is for specific English teaching.

HOWEVER, there are other times you can make this money. I got 300 once for posing as an academic visiting Xi'an and meeting a Chinese father in a coffee shop for ten minutes.

I was also paid 280-300 an hour by a coal company the second time I worked for them, but the other positives [3 weeks in Shangrila five star hotel, breakfast lunch dinner, free TV bought for me etc.] made the 4 hours a day[1000+ a day] worth it, PLUS the contacts I made teaching at a coal conference was unreal.

However, I must admit that I feel like as an English teacher I am not worth 300-almost $50 an hour, that is what you would pay a very skilled builder back in the UK, or electrician[after the call out fee], even though I feel I am a good teacher and often made the classes enjoyable and that student's do learn, in their own style, I feel that I'm not worth $50.

HOWEVER, and this is strange, I feel my legal knowledge is worth more, but no one in China, especially in Xi'an will pay the 1000 RMB I could make as a lawyer or consultant in the UK an hour for me to teach them.

I do not understand, one women wanted to take the Bar exam in the UK, I quoted her 500 an hour for a ten hour 'preparation for entering' course, which I feel I am trained enough to do, but she negotiated with my wife and offered 100. I gave up and left.
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ecubyrd



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fred13331 wrote:
If you say you can make 1500 for 3 hours, my reaction is kudos to you. I don't think you are lying. I don't understand what anyone has to gain by lying on an anonymous website. More to the point, what does anyone have to gain by accusations of lying on such a site? I just don't understand the mentality


That is all my wife's colleagues inguiries. They said that is what they will pay. To this point in my ESL teaching career in Asia I've not taught privates (my time is my time and money isn't an issue thinking) and as long as I'm not slumming it I'll continue with my thinking.

Yep, why the need to boast is beyond me as well.
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fred13331



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The average full time job will NOT work out at 200+ per hour. That's just from what I've seen, at 16 hours a week a uni job would have to pay 12000 a month to even get close to that...but most jobs are 5-6-7-8.

This is generally true - depending on how you measure it - yearly salary divided by yearly hours, mine does actually come to 200 ON average, because there are a lot of paid weeks with no hours to boost the average

NORMAL families will not pay 300 an hour, they can go to a training school and buy a year package and pay 230-240 for one on one , why pay MORE than that to a teacher?

Normal families won't. Rich families do without batting an eyelid. There are other ways - 2 or 3 students together for eg. My mate does 4 students together, twice a week 90 mins. 600 per session, 150 per student.


HOWEVER, there are other times you can make this money. I got 300 once for posing as an academic visiting Xi'an and meeting a Chinese father in a coffee shop for ten minutes.

There are opportunities everywhere, you gotta find them


However, I must admit that I feel like as an English teacher I am not worth 300-almost $50 an hour

I sometimes think the same, but, I generally teach ielts - ielts students tend to be rich, so I don't lose sleep over it


that is what you would pay a very skilled builder back in the UK, or electrician[after the call out fee], even though I feel I am a good teacher and often made the classes enjoyable and that student's do learn, in their own style, I feel that I'm not worth $50.


Don't agree with the apparent argument that builders contribute more to society than teachers, or that the deserve higher renumeration

HOWEVER, and this is strange, I feel my legal knowledge is worth more, but no one in China, especially in Xi'an will pay the 1000 RMB I could make as a lawyer or consultant in the UK an hour for me to teach them.

I know people studying law in China, looking to study law abroad, would pay you 500, right now[/i]
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