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Pay In China??
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richie122



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 101
Location: Seattle, Wa, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:33 pm    Post subject: Pay In China?? Reply with quote

I'm headed to China in a while, and in the contract I will receive 3500 rmb a month, as well as accomidations. I'm just wondering is that enough money that I'll be able to actually save money? keep in mind i'm pretty young and like to go out a lot.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you even do your homework before accepting the job?

3500 RMB a month is enough to survive, yes. But why would you work for 3500 when you can work for 6000 to 9000 a month?

I am assuming you are under 22 with no university degree?

Also, if you are eaning 3500, your boss is probably laughing himself all the way to the bank.....

Why anyone accepts such low wages is beyond me.
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goeastyoung(ish)man!



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 139
Location: back in US

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many hours will you be teaching? Will you have other time obligations (i.e. office hours)? Where will you be teaching? Shanghai? Hogwallar? What is a good time going out for you? Disco? Restaurant? Hostess bar? Pub?
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Joachim



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 311
Location: Brighton, UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richie,

In a word, no.

3500 RMB is pitiful, try to find something else.
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Yu



Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Posts: 1219
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3500 is enough if you want to live like the Chinese do... And they can still save half of their measly income. I make 3500 a month plus living accomodations. I have another job, and it has not been enough money (also I am trying to support three people.) Fortunately my husband got a job. Another FT here is making the same as me and she says 3500 is plenty of money... she spends a lot of time at home as well.
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ShapeSphere



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richie,

As you can see from the previous posts - 3500 RMB is way too low. Shockingly low. It's novices like you who cause problems for the other teachers like us here. I have experience and qualifications and still get offers as low as 100 RMB per hour. If I don't take it, then some loser will.

The best you can do is lie to the school and say due to 'personal reasons' you will not be joining the school. Then do your homework and find a better job. I shouldn't worry about lying to the Chinese; they will do it to you continually if you come here. When in Rome, etc.

Yu says if you want to live like Chinese then it's fine. The Chinese idea of entertainment is sitting on the pavement playing games, or flying a kite, or sitting outside and watching the world go by. All involve no expenditure and would be too dull for you.

For heaven's sake people - stop f*cking up the job market. Wake up.
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GeminiTiger



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShapeSphere wrote:

For heaven's sake people - stop f*cking up the job market. Wake up.



Richie, donít mind that flaming troll. This is actually the place to ask for advice despite people like him and his particular response. He is a disgruntled individual who thinks this board exists to bash China and people interested in doing ESL.

As you can see from the responses 3500 is quite low. I have not taught in China yet either, but I have done some research. From what I can tell your basic entry level position seems to pay no less then 4500 with room and food covered. Thats 22% more per month! I would advise skipping over an offer of 3500. Make sure you get airfare reimbursement for completion of a one year contract as well! Here is a good place to start looking at jobs.

http://www.abroadchina.org/

Also donít be afraid to do a Google search on the schools and the cities mentioned. Some stuff will come up to give you an idea what your getting into.

Here is a link to a currency converter if you donít know the value of RMB.

http://www.xe.com/ucc/

Good luck.
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ShapeSphere



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear.

Gemini Tiger returns with his rather flawed reasoning. It's a nice touch to try to call me a flaming troll after your antics in "The Wall, The Illusion".

Since when has expressing a strong opinion been flaming & trolling?
The word 'novice' is not obscene. My plea to stop f*cking up the job market is exactly that. And wake up - is generally considered a call to - wake up.

You're a novice as well GT and it's best to leave the advice to people who know what they are talking about. Your dismal past record on this site has demonstrated your lack of knowledge of all things China. You will definitely get a wake up call when you come here.

You don't even live in China!

Get real.
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Norman Bethune



Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShapeSphere wrote:
Oh dear.

You're a novice as well GT and it's best to leave the advice to people who know what they are talking about. Your dismal past record on this site has demonstrated your lack of knowledge of all things China. You will definitely get a wake up call when you come here.

You don't even live in China!

Get real.


I'm with you Shapes.

The realities of living and teaching in China are never adequately represented on any website (except perhaps for Dave's).

The realities of living and teaching in China are never adequately understood by those who have never been here.

The realities of living and teaching in China are never adequately comprehended by some newcomers to China.

It is the novices back in the west who don't know anything about China's economy who accept those 25 hour a week Jobs for 3500 RMB a month that keep Salaries here for FT's so low.

I can make over 100 RMB per teaching hour in the rural backwater I am in. At the Uni's here, FT's with contracts negotiated before coming, get 3200 to 3500 a month for 14 to 18 hours a week. Because I have been here some time, I know what the market can bear and demand it and get it. The newbies don't. They think they have a great deal.

Where I work now, I teach 12 hours a week, live off campus in a rent free apartment, and make 5500 RMB a month. I also teach about 10 hours at different locations for at least 100 RMB an hour (sometimes up to 150). Meanwhile, the new FT just off the plane from the US is making 3200 for 16 hours, has to live in the crappy on Campus accomodation, and has been sacked from another part-time job he arranged after the FAO found out about it (the FAO pointed out the "exclusivity" clause in his contract and called the other school which obligingly sent the FT packing). Yet the new FT still thinks he has it good.

China isn't the poor country it once was. Teachers should be paid in keeping with the change.
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find those replies bordering on the arrogant, and the question by the original poster was not very intelligent either. He failed to tell us what he has got to offer his Chinese employer and his students; if you are just going to be a talking monkey then, by all means, 3500 is fairly enough.

The national minimum pay has been set at RMB 2200, and you CAN live on that fairly well although you can definitely NOT party, drink a STARBUCK'S coffee or even have a McDonald's meal more than once in a long while.
But 3500 is quite a bit more, and it is a decentt a public school. You won't get much more from a public school anyway, except in the rich provinces where life is more expensive.

Those trolls who mentioned amounts double and more are trying to work you up; you can get more if you work for a mismanaged so-called 'ttraining centre' with ever changing work loads, schedules, no fixed holiday or day off and a lot of unfriendly comments from your so-called "customers" that pay to see a white face who they don't respect nor take seriously.
In kindergartens too you stand to make considerably more money - but as a 22-year old I doubt you have the stamina and understanding to guide preschoolers.

Also, you need to tell us how many periods you put in a week. Every salary relates to a well specifified number of weekly contact hours. 3500 is typical for a puyou on 12 to 16 hours a week; you can not say they are thus overworking and underpaying you.
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lagerlout2006



Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 985

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is better?

3500 for 10 classes a week over Mon-Wed with all holidays.(Mu 1st school)

or

6500 for 25 classes over 6 days with few holidays and split shifts.?.


Apparently many here think the 2nd is better.


Can you save?---you could save RMB to spend on holidays.

I can't wait for someone to post "Is 2800 a good salary for Beijing?" (Have a look---several Unis in Beijing pay this.) Only goe higher with an MA.
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millie



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 413
Location: HK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly agree with Roger's view on the arrogance and assumptions of some of the posters here.

It really is a bit much especially coming from some, who by their own admission, do little more than follow Chinese rote learning style in their teaching.

But there you go... big fish in a small pond I suppose Rolling Eyes

Anyway Richie, you have not mentioned what your experience or qualifications are, nor much more than the monthly figure.

Do you have a degree? ESL certificate or .....?

Is this for 10-12 lessons a week paid for 12 months of the year, return airfare with a travelling allowance for winter and summer holidays?

OR: 18-20 hours for 10 months and a one-way ticket.

From another thread below, it seems you are at "Wuhan Uni." (It probably has a longer name than that.)

Quite simply, employers (state or private) here will pay you as little as possible but RMB3,500 is, as all above suggest, pretty low.

Still, you won't starve, you will have enough to have a bit of fun and perhaps travel around a little in your holidays.
However, quite often that will mean local style.

Everyone needs to start somewhere and it may be a valuable experience for you.

Depending on your background and your total package, you may wish to ask for more - or- look elsewhere.
Nothing to loose by asking for more and maybe a bit to gain too

best of luck
M
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Norman Bethune



Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger wrote:
But 3500 is quite a bit more, and it is a decentt a public school. You won't get much more from a public school anyway, except in the rich provinces where life is more expensive.


Roger, I don't question your experience and knowledge of China. However, I do wonder about your experience with the pay in public schools here.

I work for a Public School, yet do indeed recieve much more than the 3500 per month you suggest. A few of my colleaques in the same area also make much more than that at public schools.

Perhaps the reason for that is those of us who are paid more have been in China for more than just a few months. We count our commitment in years, not months. Maybe we have been here long enough to know the territory and how to play the game to get more out of the Public Schools.

Maybe we have "quanxi" or connections that make it possible for us to make more in the public shcools. I'm not sure why I can make more than other people do who are doing the same job as me.

Roger wrote:

Those trolls who mentioned amounts double and more are trying to work you up; you can get more if you work for a mismanaged so-called 'ttraining centre' with ever changing work loads, schedules, no fixed holiday or day off and a lot of unfriendly comments from your so-called "customers" that pay to see a white face who they don't respect nor take seriously.
In kindergartens too you stand to make considerably more money - but as a 22-year old I doubt you have the stamina and understanding to guide preschoolers.


I certainly hope you were not accusing me of being a troll, Roger.

I stated facts as they relate to my situation at a Public University in one part of China (a part that so far has not been overrun with backpacker teachers).

Training schools are a nightmare. They do pay better. But you work longer and harder and the whole thing is geared to making idiot parents happy. I learned my lesson quickly about those places. Public Schools are the only places I ever teach at now.

roger wrote:
Also, you need to tell us how many periods you put in a week. Every salary relates to a well specifified number of weekly contact hours. 3500 is typical for a puyou on 12 to 16 hours a week; you can not say they are thus overworking and underpaying you.


That's about right. Yet it is possible to negotiate and get more. You just need to know the Terrain to do it right. Newcomers who are under the thrall of coming to China to teach, don't necessarily know how to do that yet. Especially if they already made an agreement before leaving the Occident.

Ban Rote Learning from your classroom. Don't follow the textbook like it is a bible. Challenge your students. I think that most of the long time FT's I know who make more in Public schools follow those guidelines.

Anyone can be a hack, work 35 hours a week at a training centre, and make at least 6000 a month. If you measure success only in terms of money, then it is a great deal (but only in China...RMB doesn't travel well).
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Old Dog



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 564
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:07 am    Post subject: Money Reply with quote

I am too embarrassed to reveal what my annual salary is. It's generous and supplemented with good flat, everything else thrown in (food, utilities, ...) - and the only draw backs are:

a. the old ratbag FAO,
b. we're locked in
c. I just can't persuade them to get the value out of me that they are paying for

Occasionally, I feel a tingling of guilt about the level of my pay. It's true, guanxi did have something to do with the appointment and it's true, too, that this was the first school in town to get a ft and so they were prepared to give the world to get me to sign a contract.

But things have changed. One place here has found it's quite cheap to get people in from a European religious organization, others have found it cheap to get young (or quite elderly) British people (via recruiters) who come here for a term or, maybe, a year and then treat them shabbily. But my schools (government + affiliated private) still have me in place - but, with the realization that cheaper, much cheaper, is available, maybe not for much longer.

Nevertheless, when the tingling gets to me, I just consider the level of fees in the schools and I work out how many "back door" students (i.e. about 40% of the population) are required to pay my annual salary. Not many, I can tell you.

So, when I hear people talk about 3,500 per month, I do think it a bit silly when simple mathematics will determine that that probably represents a total 10-month outlay of, say, 50,000 RMB to the school, other perks thrown in. Since most Chinese schools will contain 2/3,000 students (20/40% back door), one realizes that the annual ft bill is a pimple on an elephant's backside by comparison with the income.

Further, schools buy face by way of the ft face and, as anyone who knows about Chinese face knows, face never comes cheaply. You may be sure that the Chinese school makes more out of flogging your face to the local populace than they ever pay you for it.

It's no use comparing ft salaries with local teachers' salaries. Does employing a local person give the school face? No way. Are local faces flogged mercilessly on local TV? Again, no way!

And what local faces do I see becoming more and more evident in this school? Young girls, distinguishable from the students only by the quality of their shoes, and refugee teachers from the poor parts of the province - all employed on relative pittances. They are not spending up big on luring to the place experienced teachers of quality.

So there's quite a bit of cake about that's going somewhere! Maybe into black cars, big banquets, nice art collections, overseas trips, ...


Try to get a bit more than 3,500 RMB.


Last edited by Old Dog on Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bdawg



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 526
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was researching China, I was terrified about the salary. Was it going to be enough? I think I was doing a little too much researching here on Daves...salary opinions are like night and day.

Anyways, I make 3600RMB a month. I have so much money, I don't know what to *beep**in do with it. My school pays for my apartment, and my flight home. My income is 100% disposable. I buy food...thats about it...and even that only accounts for maybe a third of my salary. I eat well too. My gym pass is a bit pricey, but even thats only about 10% of my salary. Also helps that I busted my ass in the bush for 5 summers to pay for university myself...which = no student loan Laughing s

However, this is me. I just got out of university, where I never had any sort of purchasing power. I had to justify every purchase or expense. I would start out with $13,000 each september and that would have to last two semesters (in canada). I was extremely thrifty.

Here, I have more purchasing power than I've ever had before, but I still hold a students mentality...except for food...I won't skimp on that. I hate shopping and buying clothes and when I do drink, the beer is cheap, and often the bars hand it out for free to foreigners, or with a heavy discount. I also don't fill my apartment with useless crap. After all, I do have to return to Canada one day.

I figure by the time my contract is up, I'll will have saved about $3000 CDN, enough to travel for a month or two around China and start a little portfolio. This is all providing that I don't come across any 'externalities'.

There's a few teachers I know here in Nanjing who push 6-7 thousand (with the same benefits that I have...but they have to deal with high school preteens)..I seriously have no idea what they find to spend their money on.
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