Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

visa transfer
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Japan
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tmax500



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: visa transfer Reply with quote

I am outside Japan and have an eikaiwa job offer which I accepted, and since then I got the Japan visa stamp on my passport. Since getting it the employer has changed the city I would be working in to a different part of Japan.

I'm wondering if I'm not happy with this and I want to find a different employer, can I :
(1) do that using the same visa on my passport
(2) or do I need to cancel the visa to get another
(3) or must I wait until the 3 months expire (visa validation requires entry to Japan within 3 months of getting the visa stamp) to get a new one?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thomthom



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you've got your visa in your passport, it's yours and basically cannot be taken away from you. You could turn down the job offer, still go to Japan with the visa, and find a different job when you arrive.

To what extent have they been dishonest with you? The only issue is any new prospective employer will ask how you managed to get a visa in the first place. You'll have to explain you backed out of a job previously.

I might find myself in a similar situation. I've signed a preliminary contact with an ALT company to get the visa, but apparently I won't sign the "real" contract until I arrive in Japan, and I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to put me in a much more rural location than expected. Like you, I'll have the visa and could legally back out of the job and go elsewhere... but I'm not sure how guilty and negative I'll feel about that, and how other employers might feel..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
thomthom



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps I didn't answer your question properly - are you saying you'd definitely want to cancel your current visa until you find another employer while outside of Japan? I think it might be best just to go to Japan with the visa you've got, within 3 months.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
tmax500



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I'm just looking at my options. I wonder if the visa would be revoked before arriving (validating it) either by the original sponsor or by immigration. I wouldn't consider going to Japan without a job ready for financial reasons, so if I was not going to take this one I would have to have a new employer before I go there. Finding another employer in the circumstances is less of a concern - if I had to change and couldn't find another employer, I simply wouldn't go to Japan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at it another way, what was the city you were originally placed in, and where are you supposed to be heading now? If you're not considering changing companies on principle, perhaps people might be able to give you an idea what it would be like to live in the new city.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you decline the job, the employer would be wise to stop sponsorship of the visa, and who can say whether it would be canceled?

But you haven't even set foot here. Are you willing to give it a chance?

My concern is that since the location has changed, did the employer note that on the visa application?

Just FYI, many people use companies to get a visa, show up, and skip out on work, just so they have a legal right to stay longer than a tourist, and they use the time to look for greener pastures. Problem is, not only is that unethical (but it doesn't stop people), but also it looks weird when one applies for the next job and says, "Oh, I don't need sponsorship because I already have a visa but have never worked a day on it." Another problem is that greener pastures nowadays are not that easy to find.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tmax500



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the answer confirmed from a Japanese embassy: I must get a new visa for a new school (old visa automatically cancelled). I half-guessed that, but wasn't sure.

Little tip to anyone applying to a a big chain school (won't name names): make sure to get the contract and read the fine-print, before going through the COE and visa application (no job contract needed in the application process). I only got an outline and verbal promises. I finally saw the contract since getting the visa, after persistent and multiple requests for it. Instead of 265000 I saw a basic salary of 195000 and some bonuses for being available to work anywhere in the country, a 24000 max bonus for being on time (deductible by 6000 for every class late more than 1 second in a month) and a travel allowance (not a bonus).

Quelle horreur as the French would say! Forewarned is forearmed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embassies don't always know what happens in their home countries, but I suspect that is correct in this case. It's just hard to know for certain.

Now, with your lovely description of that not so lovely contract, you just have to name names! Who makes such vague promises and clobbers you with that bad a contract?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 113
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt it could be that bad that you couldn't just come to Japan and go where they put you while looking for a new job at the same time. If you only want to be here a short time you wouldn't save much money anyway if that was your aim, and if you want to be here a while you've got much more time to find another job. Keep checking gaijinpot, jobsinjapan and ohayosensei and you'll probably see lots of jobs in the area you want to be in. Always remember it's immeasurably easier to get a job from inside Japan than outside.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tmax500



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told I'd have to be available to work within a 100km radius to get certain bonuses, but not to be available to move anywhere in the country to substitute others (as per contract). A 6000yen deduction for being 1 second late (omg) - I think I've seen it all now! Not naming them anyway. Wasted my time due to getting their contract late, but they also wasted their time..

I'm not keen on moving to a new place and not being able to settle down right away. There's also the consideration of being shortchanged when changing jobs. I know by not being in Japan already, it means missing out on many other opportunities. I plan to move long term, not short term anyway. Will check those websites, they seem to be very good
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kah5217



Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 255
Location: Ibaraki

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who was it? Your warnings will go unheeded if you don't tell us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legally they cannot fine you like that. If you have decided not to take the job, it would help others to know who this scum is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tmax500



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should take back what I said about having to move anywhere in the country. It was suggested but I thought that was an 8000 bonus not a 24000 bonus. If I didnt agree to moving to any other location, and was late once a month by 11 minutes my salary would be 210000 less company insurance (and other deductions?) - this is very low in my opinion. Regarding the 6000 deduction for being 1second to 10 minutes late, it's not a deduction from the base salary, but from the 24667 bonus called "regularity allowance" (which can be deducted so many ways and even months in advance!); legality has no bearing on bonuses. I'm not allowed to post the school name on this forum.

I overlooked getting the contract in advance due to being extremely busy where I am now. I thought that them being affiliated to one of the largest employers of foreigners in Japan it should be fine. When I got the visa I was told the city would be changed. I knew that I could change jobs later if it didn't work out so I said it was fine. Only then I thought about the contract and asked for it. It took 3 weeks of constant requesting by me to get a confirmed date of training and contract sent. I gave provisional notice to my current employer and ended my long term rental contract in my current location. Upon seeing the contract I rejected the job, ignoring the possiblility of quitting and moving to a new school. I would have rejected it last November if they had shown it to me then, and it would have saved everyone the time and effort.

An outline of the contract:
-late 3 times more than 10 minutes in a month: contract terminated or new contract with 10% decuction
-late 6 times in a month (between 1 second and 10 minutes): contract terminated or new contract with 10% decuction
-up to 37 lessons*44minutes
-minimum monthly salary of 210,000 excluding leave and deductions
-base salary of 193,880
- regularity allowance of up to 24,667*
(deductible by 9000 for each notified absence in a month, (deductible by 6000 for each time the teacher is late between 1 second and 10 minutes in a month)
(deductible by the full 24667 if the teacher is late 10 minutes in a month, carried over into the following months if late more than 10minutes in a month!!)
"Where there is an incidence of lateness of 10 minutes or more, the Employee will not be eligible
for the Regularity Allowance for that calendar month. Where such a lateness occurs twice or more
in the calendar month, the second and further incidences of lateness will be carried over to the following
month(s) and the Employee will not be eligible for the Regularity Allowance for those month(s)."

- 24,667 per month for agreeing to work in any branch location in Japan indefinitely, if needed
- 8,222 per month for agreeing to work in any branch location in Japan up to 3 months, if needed
-shift allowance of 12,333 for agreeing to work any schedule
- reimbursed for travel costs to a maximum of 23,000
- night shift allowance of 8,222
- Lessons taught in excess of the regular working schedule shall be paid at the overtime rate of 125%
- The Employee shall participate in an Employer approved health insurance program. The Employee is not eligible to participate in the Japanese Employees Health Insurance and Employees Pension insurance
programs (Shakai Hoken)
-The Employer may take disciplinary action for breach of any Article in this contract.
- The Employer may issue a verbal warning, issue a written warning, suspend the Employee without pay and/or dismiss the Employee as deemed appropriate and necessary by the Employer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Company insurance"???? If you aren't enrolled in national health insurance (either kokumin kenko hoken or shakai hoken) and need to get on kokumin (a very common one in this biz) later, you will have to make up to 2 years of backpayments.


Quote:
The Employee is not eligible to participate in the Japanese Employees Health Insurance and Employees Pension insurance
programs (Shakai Hoken)
Uh, why not?

Lose this company.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kah5217



Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 255
Location: Ibaraki

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's a big flag. In English that's called "we don't want to pay our share so let's lie to the newbie".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Japan All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC