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Earning a BEd or MEd
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Imdramayu



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 384
Location: Prince Sultan University

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Earning a BEd or MEd Reply with quote

I want to earn either a BEd or MEd. I have a MA in TESOL from a US university (not online). I've been teaching university students for the past 15 years but want to teach in the public school system in Canada or the US. To do this, is just a BEd required or would a MEd be better?

Also, to better qualify to enter a BEd/MEd program, would overseas teaching of kids/teens be better? If so, I'm thinking of spending a year teaching in a school in China.

Where can I find more info about this (BEd/MEd programs)?

Im
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether you teach in US or Canada depends on where your citizenship is from, unless you've got passports from both countries, of course. Extremely rare for Canada to hire (and jump through the visa hoops) for an American teacher, and vice versa. Regardless of quals.
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to teach in a Canadian public high school or elementary school, you must have public school certification AND be a Canadian citizen (there is no way you will get hired by the government as a US citizen as public school teachers here are fighting for jobs). If you can get a work permit in some other manner (marriage or something else) then go for it but that's it.

The Canadian system is different than the US - there are no "fast track" options. If you wanted to do a BEd here, you would be doing a full 4 year degree (3 years if you are lucky, depending on the university).

McGill University offers an MA in Teaching that comes iwth public certification but again, you won't get a job without being able to legally work in Canada.

If you are referring to private schools, then again, your citizenship is the problem, your MA TESOL would be fine (unless you want to teach youth, then again, you need certification)
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Imdramayu



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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Location: Prince Sultan University

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Teacher certification to work in other provinces Reply with quote

Can the McGill certification be used in other provinces public schools?

Are there universities like McGill that offer an MA in education to be certified on provinces other than Quebec? I'm thinking of Alberta, BC, or Ontario.

Im
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Ixchel



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Earning a BEd or MEd Reply with quote

Imdramayu wrote:
I want to earn either a BEd or MEd. I have a MA in TESOL from a US university (not online). I've been teaching university students for the past 15 years but want to teach in the public school system in Canada or the US. To do this, is just a BEd required or would a MEd be better?

Also, to better qualify to enter a BEd/MEd program, would overseas teaching of kids/teens be better? If so, I'm thinking of spending a year teaching in a school in China.

Where can I find more info about this (BEd/MEd programs)?

Im

Do you hold two passports? In most school districts in the US a Master's Degree (in any subject) is now required anyway. I'd be smart and get it in something useful like adminstration or counseling. I'd never get an MA in Education as you can't use it for anything if you want to get out of the classroom (there are lots of interesting jobs in school districts which require an admin MA for example)
But since you already have your MA you don't need another one. You also don't need a BA in education. You need to pass a state basic skills test then a subject matter test in either general elementary education or a specific subject like history etc. then you take classes towards your teaching certificate when you finish your coursework plus student teaching (supervised teaching) you send it to your state and they give you a teaching cert. Each state has different rules/classes and requirements.
The fact that you have been teaching university level overseas for 15 years is excellent experience. Teaching is teaching. I don't think teaching children in China will help much if it's just ESL. If it's a self-contained classroom then yes but you'd need a state teaching credential to get a job like that.
If you want to teach in the US probably the biggest concern you'll have to address in interviews is how you will handle classroom management (i.e. discipline)
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Teacher certification to work in other provinces Reply with quote

Imdramayu wrote:
Can the McGill certification be used in other provinces public schools?

Are there universities like McGill that offer an MA in education to be certified on provinces other than Quebec? I'm thinking of Alberta, BC, or Ontario.

Im


BC does not (I am from BC). I don't think the other provinces do - I think this is a very new concept here in Canada.

Yes, it transfers, although it may take time to deal with the red tape.
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Imdramayu



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Masters to get into public school system in Canada Reply with quote

Ixchel, is what you are describing only in the US? It seems the US is more enlightened. Canada is still in the BEd dark ages.

Since I only hold Canadian passport, I'd be be looking at the Cdn scene. Is McGill the only univ in Cda which offers a Masters as a gateway to the public school system?

Im
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Ixchel



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Masters to get into public school system in Canada Reply with quote

Imdramayu wrote:
Ixchel, is what you are describing only in the US? It seems the US is more enlightened. Canada is still in the BEd dark ages.

Since I only hold Canadian passport, I'd be be looking at the Cdn scene. Is McGill the only univ in Cda which offers a Masters as a gateway to the public school system?

Im

The Canadian and US systems are a little different and keep in mind that rules also vary from state to state and even in the same state in some years they bend the rules depending on how many teachers they have and how many they need. Canada pays better though.
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santi84



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some would argue that Canada has higher standards Cool
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From McGill's website wrote:
The M.A. in Teaching and Learning is a professional program leading to Quebec teacher certification for those already holding an undergraduate degree in a Ministère de l'Éducation, du Loisir et du Sport (MELS) identified teachable subject area:

...
This 60-credit degree program is comprised of 45 credits of coursework, coupled with 15 credits of internship. Throughout the MATL, emphasis will be on the attainment of the QEP professional competencies, and evidence of mastery of these will be demonstrated in order for students to successfully complete the program. Upon completion, students are recommended to the MELS for certification.
...
How long will it take me to complete this program?
This 60 credit program can be completed on a 4 term full-time basis or a 7 term part-time basis.


This is McGill's answer to the ridiculousness of the Quebec system in which to become a teacher, you do a four-year degree in teaching your subject, and that that is very different than doing a four year degree in the subject itself. Elsewhere in Canada you do your degree in your teachable(s) and then a one-year "B.Ed"- called a PGCE in the UK.

In Ontario (and I think it's generally true for the other provinces) you cannot get a provincial teaching licence from a M.Ed.

You need to do a B.Ed to teach in the k-12 system (you can teach at private schools without a B.Ed, in theory. But with far more than half of all people graduating from teacher's college ending up without a job, it's probably extremely rare to be hired without one these days. Many people probably have an undergrad in their teachable, a B.Ed in teaching it, AND a masters degree in their teachable and/or a M.Ed in something if they are based in Ontario (where academic qualification credentialism is a big issue {universities want your cash!!!} and competition for jobs is highest).

The M.Ed is usually in areas outside of core k-12 teaching (except for the new "Master of Teaching" degree offered through University of Toronto and maybe some other schools- for which a B.Ed is a prerequisite). M.Ed degrees can be in Educational Leadership (a requirement to become a principal or vice principal, usually), Educational Psychology, Curriculum Design, Second Language Education etc. I think you can still do a 'general' M.Ed at some schools, but that is more and more like doing an undergraduate degree without a major ('undeclared'). There are quite a few different majors available. Looking up OISIE and Calgary universities can show you different masters in education (the ones at Calgary seem to be geared towards potential needs in the community, the ones at UofT seem to be geared towards things people may be interested in studying that UofT managed to develop into programs that they can sell people on).
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Imdramayu



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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Location: Prince Sultan University

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: MA that comes with public certification (Canada) Reply with quote

How would I know which MA programs come with public certification?
Is there a list of them? I hear about McGill's MA in Teaching. How about others?

BDB
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, your difficulty is that you are looking for a single set of rules to follow when there isn't a single set of rules. Most people (and that really means 'almost all people') who get a k12 teaching certificate in Canada get it in the province in which they went to school (unless it were a really high need area, then it would be very unlikely that anyone who didn't actually have first-hand experience in that education system would be accepted into a program designed to make you a teacher in it). Canada doesn't have a national education system. It has provincial education systems.

Unless it actually says it leads to acceptance by the provincial college of teachers, then it doesn't. In Ontario, at least, that means it needs to be a B.Ed program for an area within the k12 system and for all but primary will have a list of acceptable 'Teachables' (you need one for the jr/int level and two for the int/ sr level).

M.Ed usually do NOT usually lead to k12 teacher certificates in Canada (or at least Ontario, and I think it's the same in the other English speaking provinces). They are usually for other areas in education besides core k12 teaching and are often taken by people who ALREADY HAVE the k12 teacher certificate, but because many of them do not require a teacher certificate as a prerequisite (and are applicable to jobs outside of the k12 teaching areas) then people without a B.Ed (the name of the teaching qualification in Ontario) can also take them.

As I mentioned, I think McGill's program is an answer to what is a major difference in education in Quebec from the rest of Canada. In the rest of Canada, you do your degree in your teachable(s) or do your degree and make sure you have enough courses to qualify for a teachable in it, unless there are no teachables because you are getting qualified to teach k-6. Then you do your one-year B.Ed. Then you try to get a job. Quebec isn't just different from the rest of Canada in that people speak in French instead of English, the laws are based on the laws of France and in the rest of Canada they are based on the laws of England (they are based on the laws of the country that they used to be a colony of). That means that there are structural differences between Quebec and the rest of Canada including an education system that is very different. McGill is an English medium university in French Canada.

My advice is to look up the faculties of education in each province. Each province should have a list of the schools from which you can obtain a k12 certificate. Then look up those schools and see if they have a masters degree that leads to the k12 certificate.

But, again, unless you actually went through the education system of that province, then the chance of getting accepted (or hired afterwards) is not going to be very good. Oh, and for Ontario, there are a few schools in New York (America) that offer programs specifically to train Ontario teachers (because there are far, far more people who want to get into a B.Ed program than there are program places in the province, and when either set of students finish, they discover that there are far, far more places in the faculties of education than there are teacher jobs in Ontario). And then they either end up a sales manager at a Starbucks or other chain store, or they go overseas to teach, or they go to a college to get a one-year post grad certificate in something that has a placement... exactly the same as most other university graduates.
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Imdramayu



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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Location: Prince Sultan University

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: transferring certification between provinces Reply with quote

Isn't certification transferrable between provinces in Canada? Does it really matter which province I am certified in? Do school boards prefer hiring teachers who completed their BEd AND were certified in that province (or were just certified)?

So, if I complete a BEd program in a province with little teacher employment opportunities, would it be better to get certified in the province with higher employment prospects?

Im
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, teacher certification is transferable, but it from what I've read, it isn't a simple process. If you become a teacher in Ontario and then move to Alberta, then you'll have to go to university in Alberta to take some courses before they'll let you have the teacher's certificate. And then you have to actually find a job- and schools will usually want to hire from their own province. If you go from an English speaking province to Quebec, it gets really difficult, I think. You end up going back for four years- or maybe doing McGill's MA.

It would be better to get certified in a province that has higher prospects, probably. But, like I said, you kind of need to have actually gone through the education system of that province. So, you should look at going through whichever school system you yourself went through (But did you go through school in Canada, or the US? And if it's the US, do you have Canadian citizenship?).
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santi84



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can transfer to Quebec but it requires some upgrading (Quebec-specific courses). Francophone schools require testing at a high level of French. The anglophone districts do not require bilingualism but in practice, they expect at least a functional-level of French (not all parents of anglophone students are anglophone!). Private schools do not technically require the upgrading.
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