Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

More BBC anti-Russian propaganda
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Russia & C.I.S.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9047
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that is not how the BBC is supposed to work. That bastion of objectivity is not allowed to present biased half-truths, use cheap tricks like associating one crime with another, nor make claims which it cannot back up. These low standards would not be acceptable if they were reporting on any other European country - but with Russia it seems any twisting of facts is fine. The best thing they had to say was that Russia was not North Korea. Wow! Such insight. Hang on, I'll do the same thing. The UK is not the Third Reich, despite its history of racism, concentration camps, imperial aggression and involvement in toppling sovereign governments. Dispassionate, eh?

The BBC would be better served looking after its own affairs, and ensuring that innocent children on its premises are never victimised again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1831

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right about the UK.

No, they also said that Russia did not seem a threat to other countries.

As for twisting of facts, well one of the problems is that this happens inside Russia, making it rather difficult for outsiders to do much more than speculate. Although the killings seem real enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9047
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of killings inside the UK and beyond, No doubt. But to connect them with government policy requires hard evidence - of which there is none in this article. Just supposition.

If this was Rush Limbaugh, we'd laugh at how naive American media are. But I fail to see anything in this BBC article that is better than his style of insinuating commentary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1831

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know. One of the things that I have yet to substantiate is this rash of restaurant food poisoning in Britain. The Fat Duck could have had polonium on the menu. Pan-seared dogfish, drizzled with heavy water.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9047
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prove that that was ordered by the Kremlin. Go on - dare you! Double dare ya!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1831

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has already been established.

Khrushchev's secret speech.

I'll have the smoked salmon, comrade, with lashings of that there lemonade, and some of that heavy stuff, what is it... ah yes, polonaise. Bolognese? Don't say Bolognese to me! I'll bury you. In polonaizshch...

The recording becomes a little vaguer.

Take the comrade's face out of the pelmeni, comrade.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 882
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without taking sides, I'll point out that at some point you have to present things like unsubstantiated claims, the numbers of journalists attempting to fly from balconies, simply disappear or becoming bullet magnets while riding the elevator.

At some point, journalism is SUPPOSED to ask questions even if they don't have the answers. Failing to report or denying that a question exists is how problems such as corruption, intimidation, persecution and discrimination get out-of-control.

If whistleblowers are not listened to then things will return to those "old ways" of doors crashing open in the middle of the night, neighbor spying on neighbor or only getting a job because you or your parent belong to some clique......come to think of it, even worse that "the old ways" could be like the current days in America.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9047
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asking questions is one thing. Presenting conspiracy theories as half-fact, and ascribing blame to various government agencies is quite another.

Yes, bad things happen here, but who is to say that these incidents are not in reality caused by the CIA or MI6 in order to create instability inside Russia? Wouldn't be the first time they used dirty tricks like that, after all. Probably using NGO Trojan horses etc. I am fairly sure I could get a vox pop on the streets of Moscow to confirm that supposition. Should we ask those questions? Would that still be journalism? Or just peddling political distortions?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1831

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie: the implication of western organisations that you have just made is as much smear as anything you have been criticising. Ecocks' point about this 'you have no evidence' way of looking at things is very true; in my situation, friends and foes alike use this excuse for not acting against the obvious culprit. Corrupt people make really sure that evidence is not forthcoming. If you go along with this - knowing perfectly well that press investigation does not carry the same weight of evidence as a criminal trial - then you are to some extent complicit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9047
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Cole. I have smeared nobody. I'm complicit in nothing at all. Look into the history of just Iran in the 20th century, and the interference with its sovereignty by the UK and the US, and see if my comments are not true. The actions of the UK and the US are well documented, and not even denied. Glossed over, but there is no attempt to deny that these actions were taken. The evidence is overwhelming.

To imply that the government of Russia is responsible for the murders of journalists, or whatever other heinous crime, is itself irresponsible because of the total absence of any hard evidence to support those claims. And it is lazy journalism too, which is possibly more dangerous freedom of expression than any conspiracy the likes of Luke Harding or the BBC can dream up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1831

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Who is to say'... MI6... CIA ... come on! That's not smear?

And this 'you have no evidence' is exactly what the murderers and cheats use. I'm fighting one of these, as you well know, and that's exactly how they work. I know that after my enemy started his project, suddenly different government departments suddenly became intractable or hostile to our school, but 'you have no evidence'.

And our journalists are very active, until you suggest that they might investigate corruption. They go all introspective then.

In the case of the government of the country we live in: the president at times declares that enemies of his country will be pursued wherever they are. Or is that also not clear enough for you? I suppose you can explain it away as a strictly military statement; that would appear to suit your way of thinking at the moment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 720
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimir Putin is presiding over the worst time for human rights in Russia since the Soviet era, according to reports from Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch (HRW). Since being re-elected as president a year ago, Putin has "unleashed a crackdown unprecedented in the country's post-Soviet history" said HRW, bringing in new laws and adapting existing ones to stifle dissent and intimidate critics and NGOs.

The reports were published last week to coincide with the opening of the trial in Kirov of Putin's most prominent critic, Alexei Navalny on fraud charges that many see as politically motivated.

Here in London we have not forgotten the poisoning in 2006 of Alexander Litvinenko with lethal radionuclide polonium -210, which was tracked back to a nuclear powerplant in Russia.

And what about Anna Politkovskaya, known for her opposition to Putin, who was assassinated in the lift of her block of flats?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maruss



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 995
Location: Cyprus

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: The truth about todays Russia? Reply with quote

After seeing the programme and reading the postings above, which all make some valid points, I have to agree with the last one most of all for several reasons: my personal experiences of living in Russia,(and my subsequent barring from the country) the experiences of former Guardian correspondent in Moscow Luke Harding who I know personally and who has written a very interesting and also alarming book which I recommend to anyone who wants to find out more about the 'nitty-gritty' of contemporary Russia, and last but by no means least, my conversations with Russian people who have varying levels of education and political opinions and who live both in Russia and here in Cyprus. As far as the BBC programme is concerned, within thirty minutes it is impossible to cover many topics in depth and my main criticism of it would be that it would have been more comprehensible if it had confined itself to only one or two of the cases presented: the final implication that the U.K. government is 'soft pedalling' on Putins regime to protect the business interests of British firms who have extensive dealings there is equally disturbing and says a lot about the ethics of governments in mnay countries!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9047
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More banal statements of the obvious, mixed in with reheated calumnies. Enjoy!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22986053
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
teacher X



Joined: 13 Feb 2013
Posts: 152
Location: Super Sovietsky Apartment Box 918

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: The truth about todays Russia? Reply with quote

maruss wrote:
the experiences of former Guardian correspondent in Moscow Luke Harding who I know personally!


As he is a friend of yours I will hold my tongue. But in general, Luke Harding is a man who makes money out of hating Russia. Not once has he written an unbiased article for the Guardian about Russia. If you were to ask the man to write an article about the types of flowers which grow in Gorky Park, you would find that after the first 3 sentences he would be spewing forth hatred aimed at the Russian government and completely forgetting the entire point of the article.

While I understand that he didn't have pleasant interactions with the government, it does not give him the excuse to act in a wholly unprofessional manner.
The last article I saw him write about Russia for the Guardian resulted in immense amounts of abuse in CIF concerning how sickeningly biased his piece was. Coming from the CIF audience, who tend to be very liberal and eager to criticize a government such as Putin's, it really goes to show just how much unnecessary bile this man has for Russia.

Since then, I haven't seen him write any Russian related articles. The comments from readers were so hostile towards his reporting I can only assume that The Guardian decided to aim his reporting skills else where.

While I have no doubt that he is a skilled reporter, he has become soured by his time in Russia and has lost any objectivity he may have once had.

Just to sum up; Luke Harding. I'm not a fan.

I'm also sick of seeing his book advertised next to every single Russian related article on the Guardian's website.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Russia & C.I.S. All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC