Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Exchange organizations (CIEE, etc) and North Americans?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Spain
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SaratheSlytherin



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:30 pm    Post subject: Exchange organizations (CIEE, etc) and North Americans? Reply with quote

I'm going to Barcelona this coming November, to get my TEFL certification. I already have a BA (in Spanish). I decided to do my TEFL training there, because I figured, I've always wanted to see Spain, but (a) it's REALLY difficult for US citizens to get legitimate jobs there and (b) I am still thinking about returning to Latin America when I have my certification.

The problem is, I've read about Spain, and fallen in love with it... and that scares me. It makes me worked up to think about this, but their immigration laws really suck.

It's next to impossible for a US citizen to get permission to legally work there. I get that.

My question is this:

I've read that exchange organizations may be able to help North Americans who want to stay and teach there. An organization called CIEE is well-known, and mentioned in Susan Griffith's book Teaching English Abroad.

This book was written several years ago and may be outdated, but here is the CIEE website:

http://www.ciee.org/teach/spain/the-position/compensation.html

There are other exchange organizations, but this is the most well-known.

My question is: There have been changes in immigration laws (which were stupid to begin with and they have gotten worse).

1. Are exchange organizations like CIEE still viable for US citizens? Susan Griffith's book is outdated... I get that.

2. The website doesn't mention an upper age requirement but I just had my 30th birthday and I graduated from college years ago. Does this rule me out? Am I too old? (I am also going to write to them of course)

3. Is this organization legitimate?

4. How do they arrange for participants to get VISAs? How do they get around all the stupid immigration laws and red tape?

I just do not like being told no!! I can take an honest answer, I just like to look at all the options before I give up.

Are there other (legitimate) organizations?

Thanks if you can help me.

Sara
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SirKirby



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Barcelona, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIEE are a legitimate organization (the fact that they're offering only 700 euros a month tells you that Laughing (the scammers are offering you 2000-3000 with lots of extras).

You probably want to contact them directly:
http://ciee.org/contactus.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9132
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your TEFL course providers should be able to tell you about any possible legal options.

Just to clarify, it's not just that Spain's laws are 'stupid.' The older EU member states limit English teachers to EU citizens because it is presumed that there are enough of them to fill the demand. The US has very similar laws.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8640
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yip, immigration laws 'suck'.

I remember when I was a wee lad I wanted to travel round North America, working my way across the continent, will o' the wisp. Maybe do a bit of construction work, wait tables ( my knowledge of the language being passable etc.) to pay my way along my epic travels. But, goddarned it, wouldn't you know it, I couldn't even get a tourist visa to enter the US legally, and Canada wasn't much easier. Construction and hospitality sectors were crying out for manpower at the time, but still no way of fixing a job. Ludicrous. Apparently, I fitted a high-risk profile. Immigration were much afeared that I would never return home, on account of my age, gender, skills, or whatever. And this for a country that does not have anything to match the extremely generous social welfare benefits that the EU boasts and has to defend for its own citizens... Sucks majorly....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SaratheSlytherin



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your TEFL course providers should be able to tell you about any possible legal options.

I've talked to them. After much research, I picked out the Trinity TESOL course (it was hard to decide between the Cambridge CELTA and Trinity TESOL). They said that it's not entirely impossible, but very difficult. I'm going to try.

Just to clarify, it's not just that Spain's laws are 'stupid.' The older EU member states limit English teachers to EU citizens because it is presumed that there are enough of them to fill the demand. The US has very similar laws.

At the risk of digressing... I understand that these laws apply over all the EU countries, but they are unfair. I am familiar with the US immigration laws, which are also completely unfair. I'm not going to get into this, though... that's for another forum.

But I will ask this: Does anyone know of a North American who was able to teach over there, legally?

I know it's nearly impossible. The key word is nearly... so that implies that while it is really difficult, it's not entirely impossible.

Thanks for your help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SaratheSlytherin



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
Yip, immigration laws 'suck'.

I remember when I was a wee lad I wanted to travel round North America, working my way across the continent, will o' the wisp. Maybe do a bit of construction work, wait tables ( my knowledge of the language being passable etc.) to pay my way along my epic travels. But, goddarned it, wouldn't you know it, I couldn't even get a tourist visa to enter the US legally, and Canada wasn't much easier. Construction and hospitality sectors were crying out for manpower at the time, but still no way of fixing a job. Ludicrous. Apparently, I fitted a high-risk profile. Immigration were much afeared that I would never return home, on account of my age, gender, skills, or whatever. And this for a country that does not have anything to match the extremely generous social welfare benefits that the EU boasts and has to defend for its own citizens... Sucks majorly....


I clarify that I am not putting Spain down, it's just an unfair law. I'm not going to digress into the subject of immigration, because this is not the forum, but I will say this: Just because I'm from USA does NOT mean I support our immigration policy. Our laws are completely unfair as well, in my opinion. And I reiterate that this is coming from a North American. A lot of people hate us simply for being North American, but what I wish people would realize is that the individuals from a country, and a country's laws, are not one and the same.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SaratheSlytherin



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirKirby wrote:
CIEE are a legitimate organization (the fact that they're offering only 700 euros a month tells you that Laughing (the scammers are offering you 2000-3000 with lots of extras).

You probably want to contact them directly:
http://ciee.org/contactus.html


They seem legitimate, but I would really like to hear from someone who has personal experience with them?

I am gonna ask the people at the TEFL school about them... it almost seems like a waste to have a TEFl certificate when CIEE doesn't require it but I think it would open many doors.

Thanks for your help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9132
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your TEFL course providers should be able to tell you about any possible legal options.

I've talked to them. After much research, I picked out the Trinity TESOL course (it was hard to decide between the Cambridge CELTA and Trinity TESOL). They said that it's not entirely impossible, but very difficult. I'm going to try


I still think this is too vague, and suspect a sales pitch. Ask them to tell you what realistic chances you have, and exactly in what way any of their North American grads got a work permit as a US citizen with newbie level qualifications. Thru marraige? Shocked Other?

Look, I'm one of the exceptions. I'm a US citizen who has been living/working in Europe (legally) for over 12 years. However, I'm married to a European citizen who works for an international corporation that gets work permits for spouses of its employees. Currently, I'm working in the Netherlands on an 'excemption' permit of my own, which my employer was able to get for me because I actually have specialist qualifications.

The key is that an employer must be able to argue that YOU have quals that no EU citizen can match OR that no EU citizen applied for the job within X period of time. At the newbie level, it's obviously EXTREMELY rare that either condition applies...

There are bright sides, though - at worst you will likely have had a great time in Spain during/before/after your course. You've got 90 days in the Schengen zone to explore any possible options (your timing isn't great in terms of the job market, either, but you'll primarily need to be doing research in terms of what legal options might be out there anyway).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9132
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I agree that CIEE is legit - though I'm curious how many positions they may have in any given year. I think the problem will be that it's a relatively small program, and most likely have many more applicants than they have jobs.


Sorry to be so negative. Maybe you WILL get lucky! I hope so ...but it is also very important to have realistic expectations when you are going to invest considerabe amounts of both time and money in a new venture.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SaratheSlytherin



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I really do appreciate your input Spiral. Thanks. I think that the people at the school were being upfront with me. They just said that it's really difficult but that a few people were able to.

I'm not sure if the laws have changed, but it used to be that if you were North American, but had a parent or grandparent from certain countries (such as Ireland), that you could possibly get the papers that would grant you dual nationality. Unfortunately this doesn't apply to me. I have Irish and Spanish ancestry but my family has been in the USA for nearly one thousand years. Sad

I did some research on my own (immigration laws change every week, lol, I get that) and I read that some North American schools are the exception.

There is something I would like to ask you, or anyone that knows.
Please help me if you can! It's a really important questions!!

Ok, I know that US citizens are entitled to 90 days in the Schengen zone with a tourist VISA. My course lasts a month... which leaves me two more months before my time in Spain is up.

I'd like to stay for at least two months in Spain, when all is said and done. This wouldn't be overstaying my VISA, per se. My concern is where am I gonna stay? The TEFl school will find participants housing during the course. The problem is what to do about housing after the course?

I was wondering if it would be possible to find someone who be interested in having private English classes in exchange for room and board? I would be there for less than 90 days in all so I wouldn't be overstaying my VISA... but how can I arrange this? It's just an idea. I imagine it wouldn't be illegal... but how would I find a place to stay?

I know you deal with the subject of Europe... but if you have any advice about how to get work in Latin America... would you let me know please? I would be so grateful. I realize that Asia is a more lucrative place to teach, and Asia is nice but I have my heart set on going to a Latin country.

This is windy, I know... Thanks for your help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9132
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but my family has been in the USA for nearly one thousand years.

Wow Shocked

I was wondering if it would be possible to find someone who be interested in having private English classes in exchange for room and board? I would be there for less than 90 days in all so I wouldn't be overstaying my VISA... but how can I arrange this? It's just an idea. I imagine it wouldn't be illegal... but how would I find a place to stay?

This would be legal. Obviously, if you find someone to offer you room and board, you'd have a place to stay by definition.

I think it could be quite difficult to arrange something like this for two reasons: people who will invite a stranger into their home would need to really know something about you - and you, them. This kind of arrangement is usually made either through an agency, which is responsible for doing basic research on both parties and negotiating the details OR if you get to know someone who knows someone (and you haven't time to establish personal contacts).
Secondly is the timing. Not so many people are that interested in English lessons over the winter holidays. This would be much more likely to work in April/May/June, when students are preparing for exams, for example.

In any case, again I think this is a question for your course provider. They should have good contacts in the region, and if such opps exist, should be able to give you some kind of leads to either agencies or people they know who might be interested in such an arrangement. Definitely, you need local info on this option.

I know you deal with the subject of Europe... but if you have any advice about how to get work in Latin America... would you let me know please?

Sorry. Perhaps try posting in the LA forums? I really know near-zero about L.A.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SaratheSlytherin



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

What I meant to say in my last post, is that I realize that it's really hard to get work in Spain, but by no means is that the only country in which I would consider teaching.

Of course the economy sucks now, but I'm at a point in my life where, if I'm going to teach English Abroad, I need to do it soon. While I guess it's never too late, I'm at an age where most people are settled down, but the thought of being settled drives me bananas.

I realize that once you have commitments, like a spouse, a kid, or a dog... that you aren't as mobile as you used to be.

This sounds self-centered but I really enjoy teaching and think I would have a lot to offer... a good TEFL program is expensive but I think it's the right thing to do because I feel like my students deserve a qualified teacher and because it's more competitive and the person with the best certificate is gonna have an edge.

I've done my research and realize that I'm taking a risk, but I'm the kind of person who does take risks. Sometimes, you have to. Smile

But, if you can help me... thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9132
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's clear that you are going to give Spain a try, but that you're open to other options.

Your determination to get a good cert so that you can offer a real value to students is totally admirable.

Really, I'm sure you'll be fine, and will enjoy teaching somewhere. Sorry Europe is so hard...remember that you can consider Central/Eastern Europe legally, but obviously if you're into working somewhere Spanish is the native language, that won't help you.

Good luck to you - yes, I think you'll be an asset to the newbie-level teaching world.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SaratheSlytherin



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
I think it's clear that you are going to give Spain a try, but that you're open to other options.

Your determination to get a good cert so that you can offer a real value to students is totally admirable.

Really, I'm sure you'll be fine, and will enjoy teaching somewhere. Sorry Europe is so hard...remember that you can consider Central/Eastern Europe legally, but obviously if you're into working somewhere Spanish is the native language, that won't help you.

Good luck to you - yes, I think you'll be an asset to the newbie-level teaching world.


Thanks for your help. You're quite right... of course I am gonna try, but I'm open to many countries. If I decide I really love Spain I'm just gonna keep trying.

Thanks for saying you're sorry that Europe is hard... it really sucks a lot. Sad

Thanks for saying that I'll be okay though. Smile

Saludos,

Sara
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SaratheSlytherin



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 137
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Just curious? Reply with quote

I am just curious about something. I hope you don't mind all my questions, and I am digressing, I know.

We all know how difficult it is for North Americans to legally work in Spain and other European countries. I am not sure that this is because they dislike us, but it makes me wonder how Europeans in general feel about us.

I don't mean to offend anyone and I am sorry if i do, but... how do people from Spain view North Americans? I mean there are bound to be nice and not so nice people everywhere. But, I've heard that if you're a North American, that you have no chance of being accepted socially in Spain. No chance of making friends there. Is that true?

On this trip, I'm not gonna be there for more than a month or so but it would be exciting to make a friend or two.

Spiral I remember that you're married to a European guy (from Czechoslovakia, right?). I'm just asking out of curiousity. I've heard that no guy from Spain would ever take an American woman seriously as a girlfriend, or wife. I am asking this with all respect... is that true?

For the record... I'm NOT going over to Spain to meet someone. I'm going there to school (and I think it would help me get over a certain person). I really think Mexican guys are the best... but I didn't have any luck with them (that's for another forum).

Just wondered.

Ok, no mean answers, but I can take an honest answer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Spain All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC