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Distance MA TESOLs being refused in the Middle East.
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sicklyman



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

helenl wrote:
Unless someone can do the math

If your online degree coincides with your current employment - don't be surprised if questions are raised or you are not contacted. Saudi is not UAE.

my CV is clear that I did my Master's from a UK university concurrent with my work in Japan. As I said above, no one questioned it, and I agree with VS above that the DELTA doesn't look too bad on there either.

I'm not disagreeing with helenl that you might be asked questions a la Semedini's post, I'm just giving you one example to show that you can get a very well paid job out here with a distance Master's that is not questioned.
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intrepid traveler



Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Word has it that the Saudi Arabian Cultural Mission (SACM) in D.C. calls universities to see what percentage of your degree was earned online.
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revilo



Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 181
Location: Mos Eisley

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject: Now with more desperation! Reply with quote

Yeah, but even if your degree was totally online, SACM will still accept it. Call it reaping what you have sown. They got so picky that they forgot Saudi students have a reputation, and it ain't good. Twisted Evil
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ttxor1



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

Quote:
Word has it that the Saudi Arabian Cultural Mission (SACM) in D.C. calls universities to see what percentage of your degree was earned online.


This is a requirement of the SACM's authentication of docs -- it has been posted elsewhere on this forum -- " 10) Letter in a sealed envelope from the university stating the method of instruction (online, distance or regular classroom). The letter must specify all online credits, if any, and whether the applicant studied on the main campus of the university." I got a doc from my uni which says, among other things, "...His studies took place in the School of Education which is in the Faculty of Social Sciences..." I asked my uni, for special instructions when ordering the doc online, to write "method of instruction - verification letter" over the seal of the envelope, along with a signature of the uni's registrar. Since my UK uni isn't verified by the US based Nat'l Student Clearinghouse, I saw this opportunity to check two of the SACM's boxes (Verification letter and method of instruction letter) with one doc.

My official application doc specifically stated that they don't accept online degrees. This might be one of those areas where one's experience may or may not be of help to others, if their CV is stronger...?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps Saudi Arabia will follow suit in accepting job applicants' online university degrees...eventually.

UAE releases list of accredited foreign online universities
By The National Staff | February 16, 2014
Source: http://www.thenational.ae/uae/education/uae-releases-list-of-accredited-foreign-online-universities

The Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research yesterday released a list of 105 accredited foreign online universities recommended for UAE students. Of those universities, 46 are in the United Kingdom, 34 in the United States, 20 in Australia, and five in New Zealand.

Regulations governing the accreditation of distance and electronic learning define online education as the use of modern technologies to enable students to access study contents and interact with lecturers, according to Saif Rashid Al Mazrouei, the Assistant Under Secretary for Institutional and Support Services at the Ministry. He said a number of conditions must be met for students to study at those universities.

Most notably, an applicant must ensure that the distance education programme consists of interactive e-learning, and that the educational institution should be recognised by the Ministry and the government of the country that the institution is based in. The programme must also be an accredited course or equivalent in the country of study, and its length of study must not be less than the minimum duration of study for a degree of equivalent education taught by traditional means.

A full list of the accredited online universities can be found at http://www.mohesr.gov.ae/En/E-Services/Pages/Electronic_Recommended_Institute.aspx

(End of article)
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vision



Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting list but it is not very well populated.

In the end, a fully online degree is mostly worthless in the region unless you have already found an employer and are just doing it for professional development reasons.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vision wrote:
Interesting list but it is not very well populated.

That's because the list is intended for UAE students studying abroad and not for the general TESOL community. I only posted it because it shows a trend toward acceptance of degrees earned via distance learning.
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

intrepid traveler wrote:
Word has it that the Saudi Arabian Cultural Mission (SACM) in D.C. calls universities to see what percentage of your degree was earned online.


They do and my university told them to take a flying hike and asked me why it was I was even considering working there if they do that kind of thing. My bachelor's university is a major research institution and none of their degrees are entirely online. My Master's university ranks in the top 100 universities in the USA and they still phoned. The SACM is bonkers, as if they have to protect the quality of their education in Saudi Arabia. Rolling Eyes
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thomas_pynchon



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a link to the MOHESA requirements for having your degree attested?

What is the process, and how do they require the wording of the verification of online or campus delivery? My university is in the UK, but I am from Canada.

Thanks


Last edited by thomas_pynchon on Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas_pynchon wrote:
Is there a link to the MHESA requirements for having your degree attested?

MHESA?
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thomas_pynchon



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops forgot the 'O' - MOHE

I'm assuming from previous posts that that is the ministry of higher ed in SA which is requiring the degree to be attested?

Thanks
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas_pynchon wrote:
I'm assuming from previous posts that that is the ministry of higher ed in SA which is requiring the degree to be attested?

It's a requirement for the employment visa. You'd need to check the Saudi Embassy's visa requirements for Canadian citizens.

This part of the process generally is done after the job candidate officially accepts an offer. But frankly, in your situation, having your degree authenticated/attested for KSA is pointless since both your MA and TEFL cert were via online learning and your BA is unrelated to TEFL.
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coder



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 94
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by coder on Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Fifth Column



Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coder wrote:
Sorry, but if I were an employer, I would not accept any online degree and only reluctantly would I accept an online certificate (and only for the lowest jobs at that).

In my view, any serious educational pursuit is more than simply “completing the assignments" and taking tests and exams. The real value of an education is how it “shapes” you in a broad sense by interacting with others in your field, by having a 1st rate library available to you, by having your subject matter become the central part of your life, by associating and reacting with your peers on a face to face and on a daily basis, by having personal contact with world-recognized experts in a field and so on. None of these crucial educational experiences is available “online”.

“Online” to me means “part-time”…you do it when you have nothing else to do….it’s not the central part of your life……it’s like playing jacks…you do it when you can and when you feel like it. By the very nature of “online”, it’s not really serious – you’re not devoting most of your time to it – there are other much more important things going on in your life for you to really focus on it.

There are other major problems with “online”. There’s no way to verify that it was actually YOU who did the work and took the tests. There’s no way to verify – except very expensively – the legitimacy of your institution and so on.

It’s like trying to learn English via DLI – It sounds like it would work but it really doesn’t.

When asked, I’ve always advised as follows: If you’re going to stay in the field for keeps, get the brick’n’mortar degree. There are all kinds of places now where you can do a 1 year MA – if you’re really serious, you should make the sacrifice.

If you’re just in the field on a lark, as a stepping stone for something else in the future (I’d say this describes about 80% of current ESL teachers under 40 ), then stick to the certificates and online degrees.

But otherwise, why mess around with “are they going to accept my online documents???” attitudes for the next 20 years when you can “wipe the slate clean”, so to speak, in one year of graduate work.


Oh! THIS is gonna hurt! Laughing
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coder wrote:
Sorry, but if I were an employer, I would not accept any online degree and only reluctantly would I accept an online certificate (and only for the lowest jobs at that).

In my view, any serious educational pursuit is more than simply “completing the assignments" and taking tests and exams. The real value of an education is how it “shapes” you in a broad sense by interacting with others in your field, by having a 1st rate library available to you, by having your subject matter become the central part of your life, by associating and reacting with your peers on a face to face and on a daily basis, by having personal contact with world-recognized experts in a field and so on. None of these crucial educational experiences is available “online”.

When were you last in university? You paint quite an inaccurate picture of distance/online learning in the 21st century.
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