Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Lack of degree
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Newbie Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
plantagenet



Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
You may not have time to pursue your interests. Moreover, you're not likely to save enough money to pay for your university courses. In fact, how much do you expect to earn?


What I want to know is how do people do amazing things with their lives that whenever I attempt to research on how to do something similar it is always riddled with technicalities that make it seem impossible? For example, there is a documentary entitled "Amongst White Clouds" about an American who flies to China, travels to the Zhongnan Mountains, and studies under the Buddhist hermits there. In the documentary he mentions that he has been there for 3 years serving his teacher. How did this person manage such a thing with visa issues and such and how can I manage something similar? Unrelated to teaching abroad, but it just fascinates me how many people do such things in places like China or India but how outrageously difficult it seems when I look into it.

I was hoping to earn enough to survive and, if possible, begin earning a degree from one of the sources I mentioned previously. Perhaps by supplementing my income through freelancing I could make this a possibility if my base pay would be too low?

nomad soul wrote:
Yeah, without a degree, your options are limited---not a lot of choices in terms of teaching with a proper work visa. That's the reality. I know several graduate-degreed teachers who desperately want to teach in the "exotic," high-paying UAE but don't have the years under their belts. They end up working in less appealing countries in order to build their teaching experience before taking another crack at the top jobs in Dubai or Abu Dhabi. Point is, we all have to start somewhere, and it may not be our primo choice. Yes, it's a bummer, but many teachers make the most of it before moving on to a better, more desired teaching situation.


I understand that. I don't expect to have things handed to me on a silver platter or be given special treatment and can appreciate the need to climb the ladder so to speak. Though I would strongly prefer to go straight to China rather than start in Russia (is Russia still a possibility without a degree?) but you gotta do what you gotta do I suppose.

What's strange is the range of advice I've received on this matter though, both on this forum and elsewhere. Everything from "Sure, you can do it no problem" to "There are some risks, but it is entirely possible" to "Forget about it." I guess the only thing I can do is continue to research, save my money, and just try my best. Though if this endeavor is truly impossible or totally unrealistic, I suppose I better figure that out now before wasting my time.

Either way, I appreciate the advice I've been given here and if there is any more anyone can provide me, I'd be happy to receive it. Thanks again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2003
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nkengaola wrote:
You can definitely work in China with no degree, if you are willing to work in one of the smaller cities. I work in a third-tier city, and there are at least three teachers here, legally, who don't have bachelors degrees. I'm pretty sure they are getting the same pay that those of us with four-year degrees are getting. It's really difficult to get foreign teachers in this area, so the qualifications needed are lower.


Plenty of folks in Vietnam teaching without any degree...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plantagenet



Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, does anyone know if any of the Middle Eastern countries are viable without a degree, like Turkey?

It's a strange question due to the political atmosphere, but is there a TEFL field in Iran? I've always been fascinated by traditional Iranian culture, but I imagine that even if there were a TEFL industry in Iran it'd be closed doors to an American like me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2003
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plantagenet wrote:
Also, does anyone know if any of the Middle Eastern countries are viable without a degree, like Turkey?

It's a strange question due to the political atmosphere, but is there a TEFL field in Iran? I've always been fascinated by traditional Iranian culture, but I imagine that even if there were a TEFL industry in Iran it'd be closed doors to an American like me.


Please be sure to go there, to Iran and let us know how the TEFL market is....

Your questions have been answered multiple times on this thread, and on other threads on these forums.

China is your BEST bet as there are schools there willing to hire just about anybody sight unseen. Scrape up the airfare, get some sorta visa and just GO Idea
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nkengaola



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Wanzhou, Chongqing

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not saying this isn't happening, but the 'legal' issue here might be dodgy ground. Some employers in some regions may be prepared to use fake degree certification to get legal papers. So whilst it may appear that they have legal papers, they may have been gained through less than legal means. The people in question may never be aware of this. The people in question may never suffer any inconvenience or trouble because of this. However, it is fair to say that this type of working situation may come with a 'shelf-life', and it may not be something that can be continued indefinitely.


Very true, but from what I've seen and heard at my school, somewhat unlikely. My best guess is that they are "interns" in the eyes of the government, who are receiving a "stipend" for their one-year internship. Since two are pursuing bachelor's degrees online, and the third is married to a local (and two have been here for several years, so maybe they were "grandfathered" in"), I think they'll get what they need sooner rather than later.

And, this is China. Different jurisdictions, different palms greased, different rules.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nkengaola



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Wanzhou, Chongqing

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not saying this isn't happening, but the 'legal' issue here might be dodgy ground. Some employers in some regions may be prepared to use fake degree certification to get legal papers. So whilst it may appear that they have legal papers, they may have been gained through less than legal means. The people in question may never be aware of this. The people in question may never suffer any inconvenience or trouble because of this. However, it is fair to say that this type of working situation may come with a 'shelf-life', and it may not be something that can be continued indefinitely.


Very true, but from what I've seen and heard at my school, somewhat unlikely. My best guess is that they are "interns" in the eyes of the government, who are receiving a "stipend" for their one-year internship. Since two are pursuing bachelor's degrees online, and the third is married to a local (and two have been here for several years, so maybe they were "grandfathered" in"), I think they'll get what they need sooner rather than later.

And, this is China. Different jurisdictions, different palms greased, different rules.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ like I said, they may be fine forever. Or they may not. This is China. A new official in the visa office and those 'intern' visas disappear overnight. (different case for the married person so that doesnt apply in this case or to the OP). Ive first hand experience of this, working for a long established school that had always employed people on F visas with local government approval. Just over a year later and new staff at the office and employment practices changed totally overnight.

OP - I still think its going to be difficult for you, and I have a real sense you want all the adventure and none of the hard work of the degree. 'If I dont like teaching its a waste of time'. No it isnt. Why cant you start a degree in Chinese studies now and have some academic credits before you leave? Nothing wasted there ... its a subject you are interested in.

Fact is, you are prepared to study a CELTA or TEFL course. Learn Chinese. Read books about how to teach, devote yourself to teaching practice etc. And all of those things are great ... but none of them are going to count for anything in terms of being legally qualified to work in China. Like I say ... a one year adventure, yeah ... but to expect to do it for a long term whilst avoiding the qualifications is not realistic IMHO.

Been there, done that. Started myself without a degree working in China. But as someone else mentioned, I did all the volunteer stuff first, enrolled on a degree course before I started my first paid job. Took almost 2 years off and came back home to continue a degree etc etc. I feel I managed to do it because I recognised the only way it could be acheived was through undergraduate study ... but it continually reads like you want to do it all without the study....or by delaying it, postponing it for as long as possible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 852
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it is possible to go to China. You may find a decent employer and love it, you may get completely ripped off financially and be treated like crap because you will be an illegal worker and have no recourse when it happens.

If you want to go, go. Just make sure to have a back up plan if things belly up.

You may have heard of a guy who went to China and spent his time "Amongst White Clouds" but that is really an exception to the rule. Be careful about romanticizing something that at the end of the day, is just a job with an employer and clients like any other.

Like I said, just go. The longer you waffle, the more you are in danger of romanticizing something and it may leave you utterly disappointed. It's a job.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plantagenet



Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems there are a lot of presumptions or misunderstandings being made.

First, I am not desirous of going to China for adventure nor am I against working hard for a degree. I don't want to get a degree because of the cost factor, primarily, especially if I have to get student loans as would be the case now. Why should I pay outrageous amounts of money for an education I can get myself through reading books or the use of the internet on a particular subject? The only reason I'd want a degree is for the ability to use it as a means for a visa in a job field I am not even sure I would like. Of course I could test the waters and then earn a degree, but that isn't what I asked my question about.

Second, I am not romanticizing the notion of teaching, I brought up the person in the film Amongst White Clouds to point out an individual who went to China, learned Chinese for a year, and then spent over 3 years as a hermit in the Zhongnan mountains to point out how strange it is that people manage to accomplish such things considering the legal issues of visas. My bringing that up was anecdotal and had nothing to do with actually teaching.

Finally, perhaps I am ignorant of the overall situation of teaching abroad or my plans are unrealistic as it isn't something I've never done, that's why I asked on these forums.

Thanks for the help you've given me, I suppose all I can do is save the money and give it a go and see how it pans out. If I'm successful I'll log back onto these forums and let you guys know how it went.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9299
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be really appreciated if you do return and tell us where you went and how it went.
You are of course by no means the only wanna-be without a degree, and others will definitely benefit from hearing how it goes for you, good, bad, and middling.

My two cents' worth: it used to be easier than it is now. At least here in Central Europe. Back when there was greater demand and fewer teachers, I knew a (small, but fair) number of teachers without degrees. Degrees are still not legally required here, but - especially for non-European citizens, it's become much tougher to compete. (Where are you from, plantagenet? your forum name might suggest Merry Olde, but your fear of student loans sounds like a North American:-))

Anyway, Central Europe is a legal option - possibly. Given proper timing, proper TEFL certification, and some raw good luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 1892
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plantagenet wrote:

Thanks, based on that thread it seems my options are pretty limited and that this endeavor is probably not worth it. If only I were willing to spend thousands of dollars and 4 years of my life getting a piece of paper solely for this purpose, but alas that just isn't viable for me.


A degree is not a piece of paper. The paper just tells people that you've actually done the degree (and truthfully, the parchment itself isn't even the piece of paper- it's just the one people ask to see. The actual piece of paper is the letter you get before getting the parchment telling you that you've completed it. The parchment looks nice, though). The degree itself is learning, and sticking through with something long enough to see it through.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2003
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plantagenet wrote:
It seems there are a lot of presumptions or misunderstandings being made.

First, I am not desirous of going to China for adventure nor am I against working hard for a degree. I don't want to get a degree because of the cost factor, primarily, especially if I have to get student loans as would be the case now. Why should I pay outrageous amounts of money for an education I can get myself through reading books or the use of the internet on a particular subject? The only reason I'd want a degree is for the ability to use it as a means for a visa in a job field I am not even sure I would like. Of course I could test the waters and then earn a degree, but that isn't what I asked my question about.

Second, I am not romanticizing the notion of teaching, I brought up the person in the film Amongst White Clouds to point out an individual who went to China, learned Chinese for a year, and then spent over 3 years as a hermit in the Zhongnan mountains to point out how strange it is that people manage to accomplish such things considering the legal issues of visas. My bringing that up was anecdotal and had nothing to do with actually teaching.

Finally, perhaps I am ignorant of the overall situation of teaching abroad or my plans are unrealistic as it isn't something I've never done, that's why I asked on these forums.

Thanks for the help you've given me, I suppose all I can do is save the money and give it a go and see how it pans out. If I'm successful I'll log back onto these forums and let you guys know how it went.


You joined the forums back in 2009...You could have graduated this year with a degree in whatever and would be able to get a proper work visa for most EFL countries...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JN



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mentioned teaching in Iran. Well, I can't comment on the market there for that, but last year I did meet an Iranian woman who teaches English there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2003
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JN wrote:
You mentioned teaching in Iran. Well, I can't comment on the market there for that, but last year I did meet an Iranian woman who teaches English there.


I am sure there are plenty of Iranian EFL teachers...same goes for Cuba and prob even some in North Korea... and there is a whole slew of countries that are so poor and backwards that no true EFL job market for foreign teachers even exists... Yet!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
busby



Joined: 08 Mar 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Normandy

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my first post, I am finding the forum a bit overwhelming. My question is basically the same.I don't have a degree.I have a TEFLA Certificate that I did at EF in Hastings ,UK.I also taught there, not for long, and I have also taught in primary schools here in Normandy, where I have lived for the past 20 years. Now that my children have grown I would like to return to teaching and travelling. Once again I have no degree just the TEFLA. I also speak fluent French and could teach that which I did privately in England. I enjoy cooking and have been running my own pub for the last 8 years. Are there openings in Catering Colleges?I don't mind singing and playing various games.I am not in a hurry and will have some money.I will be selling my house, don't worry I have another one already paid for. What would you suggest ? I am female, 46 with a husband who would follow but perhaps not all the time.Thank you everybody.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Newbie Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC