Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Article on tefl in China - realistic or negative?
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MdSmith



Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Article on tefl in China - realistic or negative? Reply with quote

Hello all

I occasionally read about people's experiences of tefling in China as I may like to go there one day myself. I came across this article and was wondering if others had read it:

http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/teaching-english-china.htm

Quote: "if you are between the ages of 30 and 50 (or otherwise unable to financially retire back home) and are thinking about teaching English in China as a way of escaping personal problems or a prolonged period of unemployment, then you are the most likely to experience employer exploitation, difficulties with psychosocial adjustment and demoralization, and considerable dissatisfaction."

Everybody has their own opinion of course but it seems overly negative and generalistic. Any thoughts? Cheers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exploitation is ALWAYS a consideration. If the current foreigner is not amenable to the runarounds and head games they can always find another one somewhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GreatApe



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 422
Location: South of Heaven and East of Nowhere

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to agree with both the quote from the article and the post by johnpartee.

In my opinion, the quote from the article just presents the cold, hard facts of what most TEFLers coming to China are going to experience at one time or another. It's certainly NOT indicative of everyone's COMPLETE experience, but I'm willing to bet that almost all of us have experienced various levels of "exploitation, difficulties with psychosocial adjustment, demoralization and considerable dissatisfaction."

Personally, I'm pretty happy with the overall "quality" of my current job, BUT ... I still experience most of the aforementioned on a daily basis to one degree or another. Some days are better than others!

I still don't want to go back to teaching in the states, however!

--GA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2481
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a pretty good summary.
But the immature, hyper critical, moralising/proselytizing/drunken creep we see so much of in China would have difficulty anywhere.
I also have difficulty accepting as criticism, that the Chinese reserve wider English teaching (incl grammar and literature) to themselves.
For these things the language of instruction is and should be Chinese.
How would you explain Shylock and historic victimisation of the Jew to a group of Chinese undergrads where their English oral comprehension is poor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
roadwalker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1487
Location: Ch

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree with the quote that the age group 30-50 is the most likely to be exploited (under the conditions stated). More likely would be younger teachers with no experience to distinguish what is normal treatment or not and older teachers (60+) who have fewer opportunities to choose from. Of course not having a degree and experience also puts one in an exploitable role.

The problem with 30 to 50 is that those are prime earning years back home, at least under the old paradigm. More importantly for US citizens, anyway, is the lack of contribution to Social Security, pensions and defined contribution plans (401k) and/or retirement savings accounts (IRAs). But if you are in that age and are easily exploited as according to the article, you probably aren't doing to well in your home country either.

That website is a good resource for teachers and people considering China for Tefling. But it paints China as a fragile place where we have to tread lightly to avoid too much interaction, particularly with the vulnerable young women. There may be a kernel of truth in that but the reality is that China is interacting more and more with the rest of the world, including IN China. The status quo is going to be challenged at every social level. That's life. (We don't have to be total @$#$@%@s though.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DirtGuy



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've looked at that site and it is really negative. A lot of good info but overall it is too much of a downer for my liking.

As for the whole age group/earnings discussion, what makes anyone think that old paradigms work anywhere or anymore? You may be in your peak earning years in that age group but that assumes you have a job that actually pays enough for you to save money. So many jobs pay you enough to get by and nothing more. The possibility of serious savings is easy here but in the States, not so much. Factor in the rising yuan against the falling dollar and saving money in China/sending it back to the States approach is a no-brainer. My goal is to save a bundle and then open a business without start-up debt back in the States. Way easier to do that here than in America.

Take what you can from the site but take it with a major grain of salt.

DirtGuy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Banner41



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 567
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am actually glad that I read that article...it had some good points but said in a very backhanded way.

Basically, if you were a no job, lazy loser at home, then you will probably be the same here. People who complain about an extra day because of a holiday when you work a 16 hour week baffle me.

Then there are those who are hard working and lost their job through no fault of their own due to a bad economy. They will come to China and take every opportunity they can to work and save. It's really up to you to make what you want out of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lancy Bloom



Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nailed it. Qualified English teachers don't work in China. When you have the president of China with his daughter in Harvard and his sister living in Canada, it shows you that they have no respect for a foreigner who comes to live in their country to teach.
I have been shot down for saying this in the past. "You make money teaching Chinese people in your own country" They need to pass tests in foreign countries. Unllike China they must study to stay in school.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DirtGuy



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pardon me, but to what part of B41's post are you referring? I thought the last paragraph was the part that nailed it. But, hey, what do I know? I'm one of those "losers" who came over to China to work vs. doing in the US.

DG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
Nailed it. Qualified English teachers don't work in China. ...
I have been shot down for saying this in the past. "You make money teaching Chinese people in your own country" ....


hehe, tell me again why you're in china?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
roadwalker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1487
Location: Ch

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
Nailed it. Qualified English teachers don't work in China. When you have the president of China with his daughter in Harvard and his sister living in Canada, it shows you that they have no respect for a foreigner who comes to live in their country to teach.
I have been shot down for saying this in the past. "You make money teaching Chinese people in your own country" They need to pass tests in foreign countries. Unllike China they must study to stay in school.


I'm missing the part in the middle that explains the connection between living in a foreign country and not having respect for foreign teachers in your own country. Could you elaborate?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MsBlackcurrant



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That website used to make me a bit nervous! I'm right in the middle of that age range. I have quite a few academic academic qualifications and some teaching experience, but I feel I'm unlikely to find a post in the UK that will enable me to make use of my skills and interests, especially since the world of academia is so utterly competitive. So one plan I had was to go to China, work in a university environment, use my teaching skills and pursue my own academic research (in literature) in my own time. Maybe after a few years I could go to teach in the Middle East and actually save some money for my old age. But if working in China only leads to bitterness and a professional dead end, is there any sense in that idea?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MsBlackcurrant wrote:
if working in China only leads to bitterness and a professional dead end, is there any sense in that idea?


This depends on the individual I think, and each experience will differ!

(Denim-Maniac is back in China BTW!)

For example, I went to a bar tonight and met a quite delightful girl from Canada, who has been here for three weeks. She spent a fair portion of the evening sharing her stories of China, which included the 'tea-shop scam' and stories of fake hotel owners and taxi driver scams, all of which I am yet to experience in around 4 years of China-Life. Of course, she is a wandering around a strange country carrying a backpack with a Canadian flag on that for her, says 'help me' (imagine if she was American?) but this goes to show how experience can vary.

If you are qualified, can teach, have an open mind, and can comprehend google and a search function ... your chances of awful experiences are greatly reduced!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shroob



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1334

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denim-Maniac wrote:
MsBlackcurrant wrote:
if working in China only leads to bitterness and a professional dead end, is there any sense in that idea?


This depends on the individual I think, and each experience will differ!

(Denim-Maniac is back in China BTW!)

For example, I went to a bar tonight and met a quite delightful girl from Canada, who has been here for three weeks. She spent a fair portion of the evening sharing her stories of China, which included the 'tea-shop scam' and stories of fake hotel owners and taxi driver scams, all of which I am yet to experience in around 4 years of China-Life. Of course, she is a wandering around a strange country carrying a backpack with a Canadian flag on that for her, says 'help me' (imagine if she was American?) but this goes to show how experience can vary.

If you are qualified, can teach, have an open mind, and can comprehend google and a search function ... your chances of awful experiences are greatly reduced!


Welcome back.

To the OP: China's what you make of it, much like anywhere else in the world. It's a vast country with thousands upon thousands of jobs. I've personally got friends who did a midnight run, they just couldn't handle the job/culture, I've got friends who want to integrate as much as possible and are starting a life in China.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DirtGuy



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MsBlt:

Your personal situation sounds ideal for China. Having an activity outside of teaching here is, IMHO, a great counterpoint to dealing with the hassles of this country.

As for your concern about saving some money for old age, I sent $1,000 back to the US last month and I did not work very hard to do it. I expect that number to be up to $1,200 per month next year and $1,500 within 3 years here. Yes, I could have sent a lot more back had I been working in the ME, but life in my neck of the woods is pretty easy. Can you say that about the ME?

DG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only) All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC