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PSU anyone?
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missbritish101



Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: PSU anyone? Reply with quote

Hi!

Been looking at two possible jobs at PSU and KAU, and have had offers from both. I've read quite a lot on KAU here but there seems to be a lack of info on PSU female teaching staff (either that or I'm seriously bad at searching for things). Does anyone have any information about their accommodation, general work ethics?

Thanks!
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1370
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found a blog set up...may be able to find some info there or ask...I didn't scan it throughly...although some have asked similar questions on it...maybe it was you... Laughing

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=145586
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1370
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much info available, but from what I know housing for married and single western teachers tend to be located in the Diplomatic Quarter with very nice accomodations, but quite far from the PSU campus. Other marred nationalities and single women are housed closer to PSU in an apartment building which is in my estimate in good condition...by Saudi standards. Reliable bus transport is provided to and fro for all housing locations.

I don't know much about the women's side of PSU, but they just hosted an English forum and was very well organized and well presented/ attended. In my view I think they run a very efficient program.
Of course you will have a range of attitudes and problems like in any place, but it is one of the better places to work in my estimate.
Good luck


Last edited by cmp45 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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cultofpersonality



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know how long the application process for Prince Sultan is?

i.e. from the time they interview you to the job offer/rejection?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 3805
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cultofpersonality wrote:
Does anyone know how long the application process for Prince Sultan is?

No one can say because this is their major recruiting period. They'll likely be screening lots of applicants at TESOL Arabia's job fair this week; your chances improve if you'll be attending the job fair as well.


Last edited by nomad soul on Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cultofpersonality



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much nomadsoul Very Happy
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Sheikit



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the time from interview to offer was nil, since i was offered a position at the end of my interview.

the interview itself was roughly 45 minutes, and conducted by a direct, but perfectly congenial and friendly brit. i must have answered over 30 questions, rapid-fire, but the interviewer was really nice and professional, and we even had a laugh or two. the questions were sufficiently challenging, and the interviewer was surprised i answered them all well, as many candidates before me, and better qualified, had not.

a few days later i was emailed the tentative contract and salary offer, which was laughable. the working hours, holidays, and housing all sounded fine, but the salary was 13k riyals and change for someone with over 6 years experience. for me, that was not worth coming to ksa. for others it might be.
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Sheikit



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'd like to add that the transport allowance was less than the 10% required by law [or so I've read on other posts here]

additionally, while the head of english dept [men's] was western and lovely, the saudi admin was utterly unprofessional. when i declined the offer, he took the opportunity to tell me what a great package it was, and how ksa had such a low cost of living. when i then politely asked him to explain why the base salary was so low [8k riyals] and the experience bonus was 1200 riyals for my 6 years, roughly half the norm, he never responded.

that, coupled with the way their job advert asks for teachers who can also teach spanish, though the HR contact had no idea of what i was talking about when i mentioned as much, makes me scratch my head.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 3805
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheikit wrote:
a few days later i was emailed the tentative contract and salary offer, which was laughable. the working hours, holidays, and housing all sounded fine, but the salary was 13k riyals and change for someone with over 6 years experience. for me, that was not worth coming to ksa. for others it might be.

Did you provide 6 years' worth of official, signed employment letters or employment certificates from each previous employer verifying your experience? If not, then that's why your salary is below average. Additionally, some employers give more weight to or only consider relevant experience that was gained post-MA. Also be aware there's a cap on the number of years of (verified) experience; someone with, say, 12 years of experience would likely get the same as colleagues with half or less than those number of years. Moreover, your academic credentials (BA? + Delta) might have impacted salary calculation.

and wrote:
i'd like to add that the transport allowance was less than the 10% required by law [or so I've read on other posts here]

additionally, while the head of english dept [men's] was western and lovely, the saudi admin was utterly unprofessional. when i declined the offer, he took the opportunity to tell me what a great package it was, and how ksa had such a low cost of living. when i then politely asked him to explain why the base salary was so low [8k riyals] and the experience bonus was 1200 riyals for my 6 years, roughly half the norm, he never responded.

I've never seen an exact amount for the transportation allowance specified in the Saudi labor law, so it's unclear where you got that information. Plus, the base salary of 8000 SAR on the pay scale is very likely typical for the rank of PYP instructor/teacher.

Anyway, it seems you were put off by the initial job offer because you had expected to see a much higher amount, even though it was probably calculated correctly given the variables above. (This is why we often tell posters to apply to see what they're worth.)
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rollingk



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Plus, the base salary of 8000 SAR on the pay scale is very likely typical for the rank of PYP instructor/teacher.


Really? I've been in KSA awhile, and have known all manner of teachers, including PYP instructors, and have never heard of a native speaker making such a low salary.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 3805
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollingk wrote:
Quote:
Plus, the base salary of 8000 SAR on the pay scale is very likely typical for the rank of PYP instructor/teacher.

Really? I've been in KSA awhile, and have known all manner of teachers, including PYP instructors, and have never heard of a native speaker making such a low salary.

No direct-hire, native-speaking English teacher is likely to see a job offer of 8000 SAR because it's the base salary---the starting point government universities use for calculating actual salary. That is, it increases by X amount for each year of the job candidate's verified, previous experience. (However, again, the number of years of calculable experience is capped.) Once all the calculations are made, the final job offer is presented in writing to the candidate.


Last edited by nomad soul on Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sheikit



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

all of the experience is relevant, and they did not ask for any letters or certificates. that had my references, but did not phone them. i am sure it was calculated based on their variables, but then, why wouldn't they simply explain their rubric instead of serving up weak platitudes?

i can't see why anybody would work for $43Kper year in saudi, when you could go to a uni in vietnam or taiwan and make as much, even after the bit you'd pay for housing, yet still have a vibrant social life, booze, sex, cheap travel, far fewer restrictions,low cost of living, etc.

another thing i found suspect was the interviewer's insistence he could not discuss salary, not even a ballpark. why would the board waste their director's time [an hour per applicant on the phone], not to mention candidates' time and their own time drawing up contracts? if they do use a fixed scale, why not simply give the candidate a possible salary range when the verbal offer is made and save everyone the hassle? the director/interviewer, having the applicant's qualifications in front of him, could easily follow a scale and ask if the candidate was still interested before the song and dance continued.

anyway, all turned out well--i've accepted an offer for far more than that, so evidently PSUs assessment of my worth was well off the mark.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 3805
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheikit wrote:
all of the experience is relevant, and they did not ask for any letters or certificates. that had my references, but did not phone them. i am sure it was calculated based on their variables, but then, why wouldn't they simply explain their rubric instead of serving up weak platitudes?

i can't see why anybody would work for $43Kper year in saudi, when you could go to a uni in vietnam or taiwan and make as much, even after the bit you'd pay for housing, yet still have a vibrant social life, booze, sex, cheap travel, far fewer restrictions,low cost of living, etc.

References are not the same as employment verification letters/certificates. Plus, given time zone, time frame, and language proficiency differences, HR reps shouldn't have to make phone calls to previous employers in other countries; that burden is on the applicant. This may have been the cause of your misunderstanding what they required from you. By the way, many of us have gone through this same salary calculation process (regardless of the employer) without a hitch. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised when I was offered much more than what I'd calculated on my own.

I'm not knocking you, but it sounds like the Kingdom was never going to be your cup of tea in terms of lifestyle anyway. When considering teaching jobs in this part of the world, it's best to be patient but also to keep expectations as low as possible (i.e., realistic) and not get distracted solely by the dreams of making "big" money.

Good luck with your new job.
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Sheikit



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i understand that references are not the same, yet references are specifically what they asked of me--not letters. the day "referee contact details" means "certified employment letters" is the day i cease to understand my native tongue. it would have been very easy to confirm, to boot, as i spent 6 years in one place, with a boss who speaks english. i must've been crazy to think it was HR's job to check references, hahaha.

the Kingdom is where my new job is, and i've done a great deal of research on it, so whether it is my cup of tea or not remains to be seen. i've traveled extensively in the middle east --the "lifestyle" is not the issue. i simply expect to be compensated commensurate with the sacrifices inherent in said "lifestyle". otherwise, it isn't worth it.

perhaps you are right that keeping expectations low is best, yet i kept them high, and had them met--taking dream to reality. what i did not do was settle for the first offer i got, even though it was direct-hire, suspecting, and shrewdly so, that I could do better. and even without an MA, huzzah!
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rollingk



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly the right attitude for KSA, I'd say. NO need to start by succumbing to what would probably become an avalanche of bad treatment. Believe me, you'll receive a full portion of that anyway, so best to be paid well. Good luck!
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