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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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 Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Racism doesn't just apply to foreigners.
I have forgotten the last time I saw a minority on TV without the general presentation being patronising as hell (colourful costumes and traditional music). I used to live waaaaay out in Western China and I liked it there because people were, on the whole, more accepting of difference.
China doesn't need laowais to come in and tell them that racism is a problem in society - there are plenty of people from the 55 non-Han nations whose language and culture is either rapidly dying off or being put under glass in a museum somewhere.
Nor is objecting to racism something which is patronising or imperialistic (seriously "imposing our values on other culutres", as if racism is a part of China's culture - how more pompous could you get!) Plenty of educated Chinese people have good manners and open minded attitudes and there is nothing wrong with repeating those. |
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jibbs
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 452
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GreatApe wrote: |
The Chinese people themselves are going through a kind of cultural and ethnic diaspora and "culture shock" in that sense. Anyone foreigner who pays attention while walking down the street or going to the Carrefour to shop can get a pretty accurate idea of which Chinese people and families have seen a foreigner before and which are seeing a foreigner FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME when you walk by them. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about.
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Never know for sure which people are seeing a real live foreigner for the first time ever, but it's quite something to imagine. The way some look at you, you can sort of tell it is not a regular experience for them at least. There must be millions in China who have never seen a foreigner in person, never mind talk to one. It's inconceivable to us, not just from living abroad, but even if ya come from a hick town like I do you've met or at at the very least seen foreign-looking people there before, well, hopefully. Even my small hometown has a few Chinese restaurants.
Have heard going through the smaller towns where you are truly a novelty can be quite the experience. Knew one guy who loved doing that, said the people are usually pretty awesome towards this alien creature. |
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it'snotmyfault
Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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The "never seen a foreigner before" line gets a bit old after a while 
I remember going through Heathrow Airport as a young guy, seeing Arabs, Africans, you name it. A lot of them wearing their traditional dress, you can't help looking when you've only seen it on TV before, but I didn't stand there gawping at them all day.
And why do people stare when they see the same foreigners everyday. Pretty much everyday I walk out of the gate I see the security guys nudge each other and stare at me as I walk past. The novelty hasn't worn off for those guys.... |
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GreatApe
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 582
Location: South of Heaven and East of Nowhere
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:16 am Post subject: |
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jibbs wrote:
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| Have heard going through the smaller towns where you are truly a novelty can be quite the experience. Knew one guy who loved doing that, said the people are usually pretty awesome towards this alien creature. |
As awkward as it can be, I consider myself lucky to have had several experiences similar to the one you describe. I was able to take several day-long motorcycle trips 5 or 6 hours outside of Yangshuo, Guangxi when I lived there and the experience of visiting the small villages surrounding Yangshuo / Guilin was amazing. Unforgettable, actually. I ate some of the best local dishes I've ever eaten during my time in China and, yeah ... definitely got "gawked at" alot, but I always felt like I was welcomed and was never threatened or treated in a hostile manner. Old men would always offer beer and cigarettes, young kids would try their English if they knew any. Just about everyone said "ni hao" and asked me where I was from.
It's funny though, I can have that exact same experience walking down the back roads and through the small towns inside of the Greater Dongguan area. I've had people tell me they've never met a foreigner before and I've gone out several times with Chinese students for dinner and had local Chinese approach our table while eating and inquire about who I am and what I'm doing there. 
The gawking and staring, particularly in small enclosed places or on the bus, for example, can get old pretty quick, but the attention cuts both ways. I've met some very beautiful and friendly people in my time here, and I've had ugly old men come up and stare directly in my face. 
You have to develop a bit of a thick skin and take The Good with The Bad, but my experience as a foreigner traveling around China has been 98% positive. I often wonder if the Chinese who visit America and who cannot speak English very well would say the same thing about my home country.
--GA
Last edited by GreatApe on Fri May 31, 2013 12:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The novelty hasn't worn off for those guys.... |
easily amused |
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jibbs
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 452
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| it'snotmyfault wrote: |
And why do people stare when they see the same foreigners everyday. Pretty much everyday I walk out of the gate I see the security guys nudge each other and stare at me as I walk past. The novelty hasn't worn off for those guys.... |
It was kind of the same for me when I worked in Taiyuan, capital of Shanxi Province, coal mining country. I could understand the locals having a good look, as there were months there when I saw no one foreign-looking even though I lived and worked in a busy area, real busy actually, crazy loud traffic, hectic shopping at times. But I was also a bit surprised whenever I saw a foreigner. The city has around 3 million people too, which still strikes me as odd for how much it seemed to function like a village despite big stores, ability to buy some imported stuff, etc.
Anyway, I worked as the only foreigner in my office building that must have had over 200 employees. Even after months of seeing me come and go daily, I recall the security guy sometimes just looking at me for a good long look, you know, ten seconds or more I guess, which is pretty long just to look at someone, and someone you have seen many times at that. I don't know how to explain that. I guess the novelty didn't get old for that guy. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Living in Guangzhou we are nothing special.....Many many Africans, Middle Eastern People, Westerners.....Kind of miss the old days when I would get all of the attention....SOMEONE LOOK AT ME!!!! I NEED VALIDATION!!!!! |
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mwaltman
Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:24 am Post subject: |
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You can complain about your so-called racism when a country like the U.S.A. stops giving blacks extra points on the civil service exam only because they are black - as well as other minorities. Racism exists because minorities want it to exist so as to receive special attention and benefits that white folk are not entitled to.
And again, per my earlier post; just because your country has some politically correct idea of anti-racism doesn't mean every country does. Thus, if you live in a country where racism is essentially ignored then don't toot the horns that you're being discriminated against. Again, apply your own rules to your own culture and don't expect another culture to bow to your every whim, regardless of the topic. I don't see China providing Western toilets to everyone who wishes they had one. I don't see China denouncing massive and widespread corruption in all ranks because America cracked down on it long ago. I don't see China stoning their women because Middle East countries do so. And, I don't see China backing down over the Daiyou Islands because Japan says that they belong to Japan.
The simple fact is, it's not your system. If you can't live with they way you are treated, it's not your place to change said system. Thus, go back home and bask in the glory your perfect society.
I was in China a 2 years ago and will return next month and I fully accept my place and status in their culture and society. The moment I feel unwanted and out of place or unable to accept their attitudes towards me I'll take off. But, as my wife is Chinese and we are returning for her to go back to her job after graduate school in the U.S., I'll be there a while. And, fact is, I have no problems with Chinese ways-of-life and don't need to come on a board like this and bad mouth the country that welcomes me so well. I don't need to go on a board or forum like this and spout off how horrible China is and then complain when China wants me to leave. If the place is so horrible, then why be, go, remain there?
I think we all know the answer of why people put up with this supposed evil Chinese behavior... and that is the real unfortunate issue here. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| And, fact is, I have no problems with Chinese ways-of-life and don't need to come on a board like this and bad mouth the country that welcomes me so well. |
Even though I do agree with your first part as to having no problems with the way China treats foreigners, i'm not so sure that it welcomes anyone or that it should. Seems like the more developed China gets the less fun there is for me to enjoy. Does any country truly welcome foreigners. Does the US welcome Chinese, or does it make them feel it is a privilege simply to be allowed to visit the amber waves of grain. Is it degrading to have to stand before a pencil pusher who ask you three questions and then simply denies you after having spent your "yard-note" that is specifically needed due to security issues of the embassies because of the foreign policies of a country that most who live under it's flag have nothing to do with and have little knowledge. Does the Chinese welcome foreigners, with its ever inflated visa cost designed to be a political message rather than having any rhyme or reason. One day that could be blamed on foreign policy but not yet. I would say that the PRC is indifferent to foreigners and perhaps that is the best we can get. |
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jibbs
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 452
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| mwaltman wrote: |
| Racism exists because minorities want it to exist so as to receive special attention and benefits that white folk are not entitled to. |
How did you arrive at this piece of wisdom? |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Like language schools here in North America don't do the same thing? The only difference is that they would lie by omission for legal reasons. |
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teachfortoday
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| santi84 wrote: |
| Like language schools here in North America don't do the same thing? The only difference is that they would lie by omission for legal reasons. |
Cite ?
What rarely happens in North America probably happens on a daily basis in China. Racism is everywhere in the world, but a person would have to be fairly naive to try to state that it does not happen more often in China than North America. |
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