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U99A
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 64
Location: P.R.C
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 Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:47 am Post subject: Working for Web International in Shanghai |
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Hi Everyone- New to this board but not to EFL. I've been speaking with this company and the starting salary isn't bad for Shanghai (16,500). That includes the housing and travel allowances. Everything that they have been telling me sounds fine EXCEPT they want me an my partner to come over on a L-visa and then they will get us a Z-visa within the first month. I am aware that some companies/schools can do this and some can't and I have spoken with one of their foreign instructors and she informed me that all the newbies have been coming over on L-visas lately.
I am wondering about the risks involved. Are there many? Are there any for them?
Thanks so much. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I am wondering about the risks involved. Are there many? Are there any for them? |
There's always risks. Find out if they will have your visa changed in Shanghai (doubtful) or they will send you to Hongkong - most likely. If you need to go to HK WHO PAYS. And is it on their time or yours.
Also there is some chance they will send your passport and/or you to another province where Web has a school and get the resident permit there as training schools often do that.
HOWEVER, as of this writing, most schools cannot get your tourist visa changed in mainland.
A friend of mine worked at a Web and they sent him to HK. On his days off and made him pay for everything with the promise that he would get reimbursed at the end of the contract. He had to spend about $800 usd to get this visa.
Most of these stories end the same - teacher gets fired a few weeks before the end of the contract and gets shafted for all that's due.
So note that the risk FOR YOU is very high. The school will survive any problems that arise. |
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U99A
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 64
Location: P.R.C
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Kungfuman. I'm going to ask about the HK visa run. |
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avigoldberg
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 31
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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You'll actually be OK on this one.
There is a direct train from Shanghai to Hong Kong (and back) and it's cheap and comfortable.
The reason that you have to get a tourist visa is because the paperwork to get the documents for a work permit are SO LABORIOUS AND VAGUE that they can only be done in country. And the requirements are getting more laborious and vague ALL THE TIME.
The school is not going to put in all the work to get these documents for someone who might not show up-- and that does happen ALL THE TIME.
The prices will work out something like:
CNY450- health exam
CNY700- Train ticket there and back
Variable- Visa
CNY120- 1 night in a cheap hotel at Chungking mansions in Hong Kong
Web reimburses you after 6 months. That reimbursement should come at the same time as the first half of your plane ticket (3000Y).
As schools go, Web is a big corporation and pretty decent to work for. This little bit of money that it will cost for them to reimburse you is too small for them to worry about relative to their student base. And I happen to know that the Shanghai schools are HUGE. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Just remember too ... if you dont pass a demo lesson, dont seem to 'fit' immediately, or they get an existing teacher / old teacher renew a contract. You're job probably wont exist anymore ... and you'll be stuffed.
Risk indeed. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| avigoldberg wrote: |
| The reason that you have to get a tourist visa is because the paperwork to get the documents for a work permit are SO LABORIOUS AND VAGUE that they can only be done in country. And the requirements are getting more laborious and vague ALL THE TIME. |
what then explains why 95% of schools (legitimate schools) go to the
trouble of signing safea contracts and sending documents for legal
work visas? laborious and vague? even bubba zhang, the fao at
peasants college of streetpooping is able to negotiate the bureaucracy.
follow a few simple steps, fill out some forms, pay some fees.
the reason is: they want to keep the option of screwing you at any and
every opportunity. no risk for them. |
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U99A
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 64
Location: P.R.C
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I am aware that they would have no qualms whatsoever screwing me over.
However, I will have 30 days to shop around for a more lucrative position in Shanghai if I want to. Many positions that I've seen advertised prefer someone who is already there for a face to face meeting. |
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avigoldberg
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 31
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
| avigoldberg wrote: |
| The reason that you have to get a tourist visa is because the paperwork to get the documents for a work permit are SO LABORIOUS AND VAGUE that they can only be done in country. And the requirements are getting more laborious and vague ALL THE TIME. |
what then explains why 95% of schools (legitimate schools) go to the
trouble of signing safea contracts and sending documents for legal
work visas? laborious and vague? even bubba zhang, the fao at
peasants college of streetpooping is able to negotiate the bureaucracy.
follow a few simple steps, fill out some forms, pay some fees.
the reason is: they want to keep the option of screwing you at any and
every opportunity. no risk for them. |
The school has to go through:
1. State Bureau of Foreign Experts
2. Foreign Affairs.
3 Public Security
It has turned out that number one is really the hard part. Sometimes they need the letter of recommendation. Sometimes they don't. (This is true in Changsha. If you come in on a tourist visa, that is not an issue. But if you come in on a work permit from an old job, then they need it.) Sometimes they need a TEFL, sometimes they don't. (This was Wuxi.) Sometimes they are willing to hire a teacher who has been working in the country for 5 years. Other times they are not. (This was Ningbo. A couple of teachers at Web worked there for 5 years and had to quit because they could not get their license renewed by the SBFEA. I also could not get my permit because I have worked in China for more than 5 years-- even though the school was willing to hire me and had signed a contract with me that first day.) Sometimes they need to box checked to say "very good" and other times it is ok if it just says "common" (Changzhou). Sometimes they have a problem if your last job was teaching Chemistry and you want to change back to teaching English (this would be Nanjing). Sometimes they are willing to issue permits to black Africans. Sometimes they are not. (Changsha).
These are all real experiences that I have had. So what I am trying to say is that YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. And no one every knows what the policy of *that* SBFEA could be as interpreted by *that* person on *that* day in *that* state of mind for a foreigner that is *that* color. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
...even bubba zhang, the fao at
peasants college of streetpooping is able to negotiate the bureaucracy.
follow a few simple steps, fill out some forms, pay some fees.
the reason is: they want to keep the option of screwing you at any and
every opportunity. no risk for them. |
| avigoldberg wrote: |
The school has to go through:
1. State Bureau of Foreign Experts
2. Foreign Affairs.
3 Public Security
It has turned out that...... |
.....they gotta go thru 1+2+3 irregardless of whether they come in
on a tourist visa or they come in on a legitimate work visa. the procedure that bubba zhang follows will be pretty much the same, except for 'try' to
get 'apply in hong kong' on the invitation letter.
but anyways, the reasons for refusal that you listed don't apply to someone
meeting the work permit requirements and coming in on a z-visa.
if you come in on a new work visa, you don't need the release letter.
you've been working 0 years, 5-year rule won't apply.
they don't care about your last job teaching chemistry, other than using
that (if needed) to fulfill experience requirements.
black africans generally do not qualify for work permits to teach english. |
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spicykimchi
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I've been working at Web for about 1 1/2 years. Which one will you be working at? Make sure that they tell you before you come. Otherwise, you might get stuck at the Web around Songjiang Station, line #9. (It's in the middle of freaking nowhere.)
I've heard bad things about the Putuo Center, too. Apparently, teachers are given one white board marker a week, and you're limited to printing 10 sheets a paper a day.
Find out which Web you'll be working at, and I'll see if I can dig up some dirt. |
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likwid_777
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 411
Location: NA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Happened to me. Getting tired of saying it, but feel it's my civic duty. You may get screwed over. I did. L is for "Loser Visa" haha.
Up to you, though you can probably find a school with similar conditions and pay that handles the proper Z visa process.
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
Just remember that little stamp in you passport. Differing reports about how soon one can go back. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| likwid_777 wrote: |
Happened to me. Getting tired of saying it, but feel it's my civic duty. You may get screwed over. I did. L is for "Loser Visa" haha.
Up to you, though you can probably find a school with similar conditions and pay that handles the proper Z visa process.
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
Just remember that little stamp in you passport. Differing reports about how soon one can go back. |
Sounds like you learned the hard way. Thanks for sharing |
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U99A
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 64
Location: P.R.C
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| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| kungfuman wrote: |
| likwid_777 wrote: |
Happened to me. Getting tired of saying it, but feel it's my civic duty. You may get screwed over. I did. L is for "Loser Visa" haha.
Up to you, though you can probably find a school with similar conditions and pay that handles the proper Z visa process.
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
Just remember that little stamp in you passport. Differing reports about how soon one can go back. |
Sounds like you learned the hard way. Thanks for sharing |
Yeah, that really sucks.
Why would you be requested to leave the country within 10 days though? |
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TeacherInChina
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| avigoldberg wrote: |
There is a direct train from Shanghai to Hong Kong (and back) and it's cheap and comfortable.
CNY700- Train ticket there and back
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Holy smokes ! I had no idea. I usually did the shenzhen route. I suppose the train stops in Hung Hom. How is the process with passport control ? Is it faster than going through Shenzhen ? |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| U99A wrote: |
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
"Requested to leave China within 10 days."
Just remember that little stamp in you passport. Differing reports about how soon one can go back. |
| Quote: |
| Why would you be requested to leave the country within 10 days though? |
Soft deportation. He violated the "laws" and got caught. Instead of chucking him in jail or giving him a ride to the airport they gave him ten days to get out of Dodge before the sheriff took action. |
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