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Edward Snowden
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 904

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Edward Snowden Reply with quote

Is there already a thread on this? If so, I couldn't find it.

I'm under no illusions about the extent to which governments spy on one another, in fact I would be more surprised if they didn't. But the more I watch this political train wreck, the more I find myself despairing at the US government's handling of it. Regardless of whether you are in the traitor or whistleblower camp, the incompetence of their response has been breathtaking.

They were so busy insisting they weren't spying on Americans that they effectively confirmed that they were spying on everyone else. Did they really think there would be no consequences to that? Now the governments they were spying on are less than enthusiastic about helping them arrest him. Quelle surprise!

Their cack handed approach has turned him into an international hero, desperately fleeing the evil clutches of Western tyranny. And the US government's response? HK and Russia's failure to arrest him will put a 'strain on relations'. Not the USA's spying, no no no, that's won't put a strain on relations, just their failure to arrest him.

It's like watching a particularly gripping episode of 'Stop the Pigeon'. I'll be a little disappointed when it's all over.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9563
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last I saw, Eddie was getting royally plastered with his new best friends in the Kremlin. The vodka did flow, medals were pinned, speeches were made, backs were slapped. What a joyous time.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In his position I am not sure that I would risk exile in Ecuador. I think I would go for a villa in Havana.

Last edited by scot47 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siberia would be best, I think.
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Mr. Kalgukshi
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Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Location: Anxious? Stressed? Repeat the following 300 times daily: A wet robin never flies at night.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is being closely monitored by the Mod Team.

Discuss this topic civilly without reference to threats, tirades against particular nationalities or any other kind of inappropriate posting.

If not, you will be severely sanctioned to include permanent banning.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awful, and even worse that it’s not much of a surprise given technological advances. I’m sure information is lifted without knowledge or consent. I’m equally sure governments and corporations will have colluded (and denied) to some extent. Big business rules as always.

An example of the googly wonder’s previous activity down yonder (& 29 other places) which it claims happened inadvertently. Can you do something inadvertently 30+ times?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10670597
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10662328

I read that Edward Snowden vanished into thin air (more or less). Now he’s said to be at a Russian airport. I enjoyed reading about the journalists’ futile journey on a 12 hour flight to Havana.

They seek him here, they seek him there.
Those ‘Mericans seek him everywhere.
Is he a hero? - A stool pigeon?
That damned, elusive Ed Snowden!


(From Baroness Emmuska Orczy - with a few liberties)
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9563
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am always amazed at the naivete that some people can display in the midst of scandals such as this one with regard to both what governments can and will do, and to the dangerous possibilities afforded by computer technology. Think about it. The KGB spent untold millions of rubles and countless man-hours trying to monitor dissidents etc. Now we do their job for them by writing emails and installing webcams into our homes, not to mention social networks. We even pay for this ourselves! We thus allow anyone to monitor our lives, and it is a whole lot easier than in this flick:

http://mubi.com/films/the-lives-of-others
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperately seeking Snowden...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23067163
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scot47



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will end badly.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an interesting article:

"Through this whole business, I’ve remained of two minds about Snowden’s tale. While I am certain that what he has reported is true, I’m unsure of motivation. With what I have just read, though, I think I’m getting a clearer picture. One I will try to paint for you.

Snowden used to post on a website called Ars Technica: it’s a site for professional techies (“alpha geeks” is what the site says). He frequented the Internet Relay Chat rooms quite a lot, shooting the breeze with whoever happened by. This began when he was stationed in Geneva in 2007: an IT guy for the CIA in a foreign land, he probably enjoyed this little bit of home. His posts – under user name TheTrueHOOHA – from that time show someone who is decidedly unworldly: he complained about almost everything in Switzerland, from the price of food to the women. Over the years, he changed from an insulated, opinionated American into an opinionated, snarky ex-pat. One of the biggest changes in his opinions is what he thought of leakers. Back then, he was not a fan. In January of 2009, the following exchange took place in the chat room:"

(I can't post the exchanges here since this is a "family-orientated site," but you can read them at the link below)

"He was gung-ho for it (i.e. warrantless wire-taping) when Bush was president. Which brings up an interesting point: his opinion of such programs abruptly changed when Barack Obama took office. In the chat room, which Ars Technica calls “Officially unofficial” – the online equivalent to “the back room occupied by drinkers who feel the front (of the bar) is just too stuffy for them,” Snowden felt free to speak his mind even if everyone in the room would disagree with him. And he could be ugly about it.

Snowden revealed that he was a Ron Paul supporter and championed a return to the gold standard along with short selling stocks. Social issues also reveal a Libertarian bent when it came to personal freedoms. He also bought into Obama conspiracy theories such as the one that said Obama was going to devalue U.S. currency, leading to higher unemployment, something he saw as a “correction” and “a necessary part of capitalism.”

His disdain of President Obama and his policies was apparent and he b*tched about them with “increasing frequency.” But there are two issues where, I believe, where Snowden’s true colors shine very clearly. This is one:"Very interesting. Snowden is a gun nut as well as an Obama hater. He also has been an outspoken advocate of the very thing he has become famous for revealing, cheering the security state network and insisting that it needed funding, even in the face of draconian budget cuts. He was particularly upset by Obama’s choice for the head of the CIA:"

"This new information has me pondering exactly who this guy is: is he the concerned whistle-blower? Or did he have an ulterior motive to spill what he did? His background isn’t really CIA or NSA material, so say a few people I’ve spoken to who actually have worked for a government contractor. So why was he hired? And why did he pick now to speak out? This has never smelled right to me, which is why I have withheld judgement. But these new revelations create even more questions. Is this whole thing a ruse to make the President look bad? If so, who is funding it – who is paying for all his travel and hotels? Or is Edward Snowden, a man who has completely destroyed his own life, just stupid? I still don’t know but this new information gives me a lot to think about. How about you?"

Read more: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/06/have-we-all-been-fooled-by-edward-snowden/#ixzz2YJ9qbgyt


Regards,
John
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

Isn't that article just one long ad-hominem attack? An attempt to divert attention away from the information revealed by Snowden by smearing his character? Even if what the article says is true, what difference does it make in the face of the spying that has been taking place?


Sasha
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

If using a person's own words to try to understand why that person did something is an ad hominem attack, I guess the term needs to be redefined.

Motivation is always important - and if anyone hasn't known about what's been going on for over two decades now, I have to assume they've been living in a cave - without wi-fi. Very Happy

Regards,
John
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

Those were not all his words, though, were they? Second-hand info from a forum, mixed with speculative and leading questions... No need for any re-definitions.


Regards

Sasha
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it really matters what his motivation was. I'm not even that interested in what he leaked, let alone why he leaked it. I'm interested in the fact that it was possible for him to do so.

Why did a contractor have access to so much information about a supposedly super secret super secure surveillance system? How was he able to download documents and data wholesale without anyone noticing? And then go AWOL with them, and still no-one noticed until it hit the press? If you made a film based on that conceit, people would ridicule it. Surely a secret government spy program would have some basic internal security? Apparently not.

He was able to access all this information with relative ease and without being caught until he outed himself. Who else has had access to it? Who knows if some other contractor accessed similar stuff and sold it on rather than going public?

Snowden is just one bloke, he's probably already been replaced, there's plenty of other tech contractors wading through this data. Every single one of them is a potential security risk. But we are supposed to believe he's the only one who saw a value in passing that info on. Maybe he was, but I find it a little hard to believe.
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scot47



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something about this whole business makes me feel uncomfortable. What was Snowden's motivation ? As with the Assange story, there is is more to this than mets the eye. Maybe I have been exposed to too many conspiracy theories ?
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