Job Discussion Forums

GONZALVESB · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 52

Hi Dave or anybody or who is able to assist

Evil or Very Mad

I have just registered on your website and read your mail about contract tips. I want to explain my situation to you and would like your advice as to what my chances are of leaving this school and finding alternative employment without paying a penalty fee and still getting the school to pay at least half of my return ticket. Let me tell you what has happened until now.

I received a letter of invitation to come and teach at this school, Tangshan Teacher's College, Yutian Branch, while still in SA in January 2003. They informed me that I should me in China not later than 15/02. They offered furnished two bedroom apartment, with all the things these people normally offer, i.e. TV, washing machine, etc. They also offered to pay a roundtrip airticket and a salary of RMB 4,000 and RMB2,200 travelling allowance. On my arrival my apartment was not ready and I spent two days in a hotel which they paid for. I moved into my apartment a week before school started. The contract they finally offered me without informing me of their laws. The contract includes all the articles you suggest one should look for in a contract. I have of course signed the contract already. I teach 22 hours a week for RMB4,000 if I do not have 22 classes I will make up by having an English Corner on a Friday after school. I do not get any paid sick-leave, 2 weeks summer vacation with salary, 1,100 travel allowance, three days for labor day, three days for China Nat. Day, one day for New Year Day and 2 days for Christmas.RMB50 will be deducted for sick=leave. On the day I signed the contract they also wanted to give me a single to ticket from Beijing to Cape Town and I told them that that was not what you offered me in the first letter I received from you. They then removed this clause from the contract and said on a friendly basis we agree to pay your roundtrip airticket.
In the meantime another Foreign Teacher at this school came back from his holiday and told me that they are cheating me. For example, I should have 30 days paid sick leave, 4 weeks summer vacation with salary and I should only teach 20 classes per week anything more than that is overtime, I should also get RMB 2,200 for travel allowance, and 5 days for Christmas. I have also not heard anything about my roudtrip airticket since then although I have asked the translator this question, I did not get any response. They also did not pay my February salary until I asked for it, a week later.

As far as my living conditions are concerned, I have to buy drinking water, the place was not cleaned before I moved in, the working surface in the kitchen is not covered, I cannot used the washing machine because there is no plug in the wall for it.

I really feel like I have been cheated. I asked the translator to set up a meeting with the school leaders and he told me to write down a list of my complaints and he will take it to them. I did not do this since I feel I have a right to speak to them face to face. And because I feel I have been cheated, I really just want to leave this school and find myself a better school. Could you please tell me what my legal situation is?

I would really appreciate some assistance regarding this matter.

Bernadette

Johnathan · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 7

Welcome to Asia. Get a water cooler or buy bottled water. A little bit of waiting before you get your apartment-not os bad. For help read the add Dave has placed EFL-law.com. See the experts for advice.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

In my view, you are NOT being cheated so long as they live up to their contractual clauses. If it says you stand to be paid a round trip at the end of your term then you can only claim it then and there. Travel allowance is not a given either - often it is offered, often it is not. I get none but my school takes us on outings from time to time, including holiday trips by air!
30 days sick leave? I have never heard that before!
Water in bottles? What's the problem? I bought a PHILIPS water purifier, and I never boil water or buy bottled water.
4000 for 22 hours? Not unusual! The other guy may have struck a better deal - but that does not mean they are CHEATING you. This is a free-market at work. Negotiate a better contract next time, and do your best to impress on them your desire to stay put in the country!

If we all had issues like yours it would be Heaven!

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

I would not say you have been cheated. Things may not be perfect, but it does not sound like your school is a slime ball. Obviously, you will have to say calmly, but with no doubt, you need the plug, when will it be done, and until then, have them get you an extension cord. Be nice, ask them to get it for you by the end of the day.
Two day's wait is very short. I am at a school I like a lot, but I waited for a month for my apartment (wasn't happy), but it happens. They do not spend the ton of money on your apartment until they know for sure you are signing the contract. Sometimes (hard to believe) foreign teachers say they are coming and never show up.
Your vacation days sound normal. You missed out, the big vacation is the winter vacation. In MY opinion, if you are working the following fall semester, they should pay you for the whole summer. If you are not working the fall semester, they should not pay you for the summer vacation. I also believe this is the common, accepted practice in China.
Sounds like they are paying your air ticket? Usually this is pro-rated, or paid half at a time. Paid sick leave??? Usually the way most contracts are worded is that if you are that sick (30 days) you should go home. If you are that sick, do you want to be in a Chinese hospital? If you are sick for a week, they will not take it out of your salary. But you don't get 30 free days of vacation. What do you mean by paid sick leave?
I really think you are over reacting. You might REQUEST if they will provide the apartment with a water dispenser. I think the idea that they should buy your water is a little overboard.
Five days??? Five days for Christmas??? It is not even a Chinese holiday. Which country do you live in that you got five days for Christmas? If they gave the previous teacher that much, the school was getting hosed. If you leave and go to another school, you may get what you deserve, a much worse situation. I think you are terribly overreacting, and if you continue, and demand to see "the leaders" about these things, they will rightly perceive you as a foreign jerk who abuses their hospitality, and you will give us all a bad name.
I don't mean this badly, I am really trying to have you rethink. Hope you can enjoy your stay in China, but I think you are mostly in the wrong. I certainly would award you nothing. In the US, My first paycheck was often late, and China is not the model of efficiency. Loosen up, don't worry about your foreign co-teacher. If youu agreed to 22 hours, its a little much, but not horrible.
Chill.

Paul G · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 125 Location: China & USA

Chris is right, chill. If you let the minor inconveniences of China bother you, and yours are minor inconveniences, you will never enjoy your stay there.

It sounds like the school is living up to their end of the contract. How can you say that they are cheating you? You did read the contract and agree to the terms, didn't you? Just because the school does not cater to your every whim does not mean that you are being cheated. Confronting your employers and telling them that they are cheating you is just going to create more problems than you are going to be able to deal with. If these minor problems are causing you so much anxiety, I would hate to see what happens when your employer dislikes your attitude, fires you and throws you out of the apartment.

Relax and start enjoying your life. Do a real good job for the school and then, in a few months, you will be in a position to negotiate some improvements in your contract. You should immediately go to your "translators" and apologize to your employer and blame it on jet lag or something.

GONZALVESB · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 52

Thank you to those of you who were answering my questions or trying to give me advice and to those who think that I am complaining or expect people to jump at my every whim, I really don't need your comments. I was merely asking for advice and checking whether the conditions in my contract is standard. I think if someone told you that you were being screwed you would react in the same way and maybe I was naive to believe the other Foreign Teacher and if you want to call me stupid or ignorant go ahead, but we all learn. I don't think you came to China being fully prepared either, you all had to learn.

As far as the payment of my ticket and the RMB2,200 for travelling allowance is concerned, these things were put in the letter of invitation. On my arrival here they changed their minds, to me that is cheating. They signed the letter indicating these conditions before I left my country and I would like you to know that I only accepted the offer on the condition that they pay me a roundtrip airticket. Since this has not been put into my contract, I need written confirmation that they will pay my airticket. I have also asked my translator about this two weeks ago and did not get any response and this is my concern, why do they not respond. They agreed to pay it verbally but what proof do I have.

Roger, Jonathan or Writerman could you please tell me what does it mean if they state that they will deduct RMB50 per lesson for sick leave. Does that mean if I am sick for two days, they will deduct or maybe I am just confused. The way I understand the contract, if I am sick, be it one day or ten days, they will deduct it from my salary. Arioch36 please keep quiet I am not asking you. I am not looking for 30 days holidays, by the way I did not come to have a holiday. I came to teach but I at least expect people to keep their word.

So what if I am naive and did not know what to expect from China. This is a learning experience and I am always willing to learn.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Sorry to read about your situation. Yes, I agree one is tempted to give an expat and fellow teacher more credit than a total stranger and foreigner! Fact is, however, many of these expats are better at backstabbing than at teaching. Just my opinion!

Your question about RMB 50 deduction in the case of sick leave: I have the same stipulation, and it literally means that I cannot take sick leave without paying for the hours I missed out. I can make up some of them, thus saving this loss.

May I ask: Are you working for a private school? And, are you legal (work visa)? If yes, I would be a lot less pessimistic! If, however, you are working on a business visa they can cheat you at the end of your term by withholding the airfare. They can also dismiss you with impunity.

Don't take Chris' comments too badly! I would say his comment was not appropriate, but it was out of character!

GONZALVESB · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 52

Thanx Roger. Yes, I am legal and no I am not working for a private school. I feel a lot better now that I know I am not being taken advantage of. I think I would just feel a lot better if I have it in writing that they will pay my roundtrip ticket since they promised my colleague a bonus at the end of his contract last year and then denied that they ever promised him a bonus. Also it is a well-known fact that these people are not so honest.

I would also not mind making up for lessons since I believe the students are my first priority but it sounds more like they are trying to save money and that is why they would prefer to deduct money and not ask me to make-up the lessons instead.

Anyway, like you all pointed out I could have been at a much worse school. I really appreciate the advice.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

I honestly don't think anyone was jumping on you. I know personally I took you for an adult and tried to answer in a very non-Chinese staightforward way.

You said,
"On my arrival my apartment was not ready and I spent two days in a hotel which they paid for"
I said I didn't think this was bad at all. It happens a lot even at schools that are good. Honest question, honest answer.
You said you felt, "For example, I should have 30 days paid sick leave", People were honest in their response, not negative towards you, just that not being given 30 days sick leave is not abnormal, but that this needed clarification. Many colleges don't penalize for being sick a couple days.
If you work next semester, I said I think you should get summer pay, otherwise, not. etc. etc. etc. The big thing seems to be the flight pay, which they have said they will pay. Be polite, deal with the system, and hopefully you canget half of it in a month or so.

I am quite sincere when I said I thought you were over reacting by demanding to see the leaders, and that they would probably perceive to be a typical foreign jerk. This is not in any way an insult to you. Take that way if you wish, but it's not. It really isn't.
If after a month or two they are nipping corners and cheating you here and there, in such a case it can sometimes be helpful to see the leader. I have advised this in the past, to people who have been at the school for a while. If you do it after such a short time (if I understand your story correctly) you will cause your FAO to totally lose face. You will also lose face for not trying hard enough to work with the FAO, which is your chain of command. Unless your FAO is grossly lying to you, the leaders will lose respect for you, etc. My understanding of how such relationships work.
If your school is a bunch of lying SOB's, bucking the system won't help anyways. If your school and FAO are semi decent you will totally alienate them.
My current school, I lived in a hotel for over a month, mad at hell at times. But I stuck with my FAO In March I got 3 months pay. I have received personal thank yous for my patience. Now i am not advising you to accept pay being two months late, but even in America the first paycheck is sometimes a couple weeks late, I have often gotten two at once the first time. I wouldn't have made any friends by demanding to see the president about it.
I think people were honest and treated you like and adult.
You said, "advice and to those who think that I am complaining or expect people to jump at my every whim, I really don't need your comments"
Well you were complaining. Nothing wrong with that. If my comments offended you, let me know which ones. You have my promise I will truly examine myself to seek to see where I wronged you, and apologize if neccessary.
I think I, and others were straightforward with you, saying it appeared you were mostly wrong. What's the problem?

GONZALVESB · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 52

Dear Arioch36

I think you were judging me without fully understanding the purpose of the email and my situation, but be that as it may I would still like to clear some issues. Yes, I am an adult, maybe sensitive but definitely more of an adult than you. But then on the other hand I guess you are a male, which explains the insensitivity.

I was not complaining about the hotel, that is quite understandable that they did not want to prepare the apartment until I was physically here. I was only trying to give a detail picture of what has transpired since I received the invitation of employment.

What I don't understand is why you use words such as demand and whim. I did not demand to see the leaders, I asked to see them. Why? Because I asked the FAO (if this is what you call the translator) about my airticket two weeks ago and I still did not get any response. When I asked him about the sick leave issue, he pointed out that RMB50 will be deducted if you are absent with permission (to me that means if I inform them that I am sick), RMB100 for being absent without permission. My colleague also told me not to talk to this guy because he does not convey the messages to the leader and he just tells you the school cannot do this and the school cannot do that. I also wanted to write all my requests down and my colleague told me that I will never get a response from them and this is why I thought I should speak to them face to face. I also don't have whims, I have needs or requests. Without giving you my whole life story or even the reasons why I am here, I would like to tell you that I will not be able to afford a holiday, so I really don't think I want 30 days sick leave to spend in where ever. And yes, I will be teaching next semester.

The other thing that bothers me about these people is the fact that they offered me a year contract initially and then on my arrival they inform me it is only for ten months (in actual fact it is 10 and a half and I only miss two weeks of teaching really because on 15 Jan. they close again for holidays, right?) and therefore I get less for travel allowance and they can only pay a oneway airticket. Does that sound like honest people to you????? The thing about my airticket was not definite. They said they would pay for it, but also made me aware that that was not the final decision because they needed to discuss this with the other leaders. Now I really think they had enough time to discuss it and it is not as if I want the money right away, I just want it on paper.

Lastly, how can they give two Foreign Teachers different contracts. And when my colleague returned they wanted to give him the same contract as mine and he refused to sign it. They have negotiated for almost three weeks and he finally realized that they were playing for time because his visa expires on 17 April 2003. He has now signed a contract with a semi-private school and has left. When they told him to pay the penalty fee, he refused and said they can always go and sort this out in court. Then they just let him go. The other thing they did to him was, when he went home for a holiday they paid his airfare back home and then they put into his contract that he has borrowed the money for his airfare and that he should now deposit this money into their bank account. He of course refused.

You can respond to this if you feel like. I really just wanted you to know that I am not a child and I can admit when I am wrong but I still don't know if I can trust these people and I really don't think they are open and honest.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Dear GONZALESB,
I do believe your schools is not totally kosher! IF it is a state-run institution, then they ought to offer the same work conditions to all of you expats, although I know from my own experience they often try to cut an advantageous deal.
However, in your contract there should be a clause dealing with the airfare. The minimum they should pay for a one-year contract is 5000 RMB, or half if you work only one term (semester).
If there is no stipulation, I would be at a loss to understand the situation as the PSB has to give their green light.
As for the duration of your employment and the slaries due, it is common practice for them to hire you for 12 months but to keep you on their payroll for ten to eleven months - one year minus the summer holiday season! Havi9ng family links to the RSA myself, I know that you absolutely need this money. Unfortunately, there is at this juncture no guarantee that they are going to live up to their obligations.
My advice is for you to insist next time when you sign a contract that your airfare gets prorated and added to your monthly pay.
I suppose, your colleague who absonced from your school has made things a bit tougher for you. The school will have learnt a lesson. Also, I must say they tend to be rather vindictive.
I hope they are not going to take it out on you!
All my best wishes,
Roger

yaco · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 473

Dear Gonsalvez

I sympathise with your plight !!!!!!

I signed a 12 mth contract with a state vocational college before I arrived in China. ( I started Feb 2003 ).

The college wished to change this to a 6 mth contract to fit in with the end of the school year. This is an entirely reasonable request from the school although it means I am only reimbursed for half my return ticket.

If the school and myself are happy with the situation , I will sign a 12 month contract at the beginning of the new school year. Roger is correct in stating that you are payed for 10 1/2 mths but according to the regulations this is considered a 12 mth contract. If you are employed in a state education institute you are payed for Winter Holidays ( mid Jan/Feb) but not summer holidays. Under this criteria you will be entitled to a full reimbursement of a return airline tione way ticket.

Good luck.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

I think you should give the FAO a reasonable amount of time. Now what the departing foreign teacher said about FAOs can be true. They can be a gold mine, or a source of frustration, but I would say waiting a month is not long at all. I did not call you a jerk. I said they will feel that way if you buck the system so quickly. try using the FAO first. Don't let the other teacher cloud your judgment. Maybe he had too good of a deal in some areas, and the school was trying to get in line with the norm, or maybe the school was out to get him

This one year really 10 1/2 months thing is common. I was mad the first time, but it is standard practice. So if you start in March, they should definitely pay you for summer, but probably not for Winter Vacation.
The plane ticket should be in the contract. It is also a legal requirement for them to pay you. But they do view contracts differently.
The putting airfare money their account is a scam to have leverage to get you to stay. But paid sick leave is a privilege a few colleges give to foreign teachers only. The 50 deduction for being sick is standard for Chinese teachers at colleges or language schools, and many colleges do the same with foreign teachers, many don't. Have an open mind to them, and see how the classes are, and whether they give you your plane fare in a somewhat Chinese timely manner.
However , from their point of view, they might be reluctant to give half of the airfare until you have worked 6 months, given that the other foreign teacher left. It wouldn't be good guanxi to make you like working there, but it might be good business sense from their point of view

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Oh PS, I PM'ed you, but also wanted publically to apologize for not writing in a more understanding way. Usually it is I who criticizes Roger for being too rough sometimes. Maybe I am getting a case of internetitis.
I hope you will often post and keep us updated. As I have said before, we need more women writing here.

Chris in Henan

GONZALVESB · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 52

Hi,

My apologies for only responding to your responses now, but my two year old daughter does not always allow me to sit in front of the "colliepeter" in peace, but now that she is sleeping I am trying to get up to date with all my emails.

Thank you for the advice. I have not made any requests to the school again and thought I will wait a while. I was playing Basket Ball with some of my students this evening when one of the Chinese Teachers passed and she told me how happy they are with my work and that all the students like me and get on very well with me, which I am not saying because I want to blow my own horn but I am really trying my best to help these students improve their conversational English. I must also add that they definitely need more expats because the students are not used to listening to people speaking English. I also allow the students to visit me over weekends to practice their English and it will rather be sad if the Leaders of the school cannot treat the expat well enough to keep them longer because it will be at the students' loss.

But, I will try my best for as long as I am here and hopefully I can work things out with the Leaders. Another question: How long does it take to get a Work Permit? The school has had my passport now for two weeks but still did not finalize my Work Permit.

I will keep you posted should there be any new developments.