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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry fellas. As soon as somebody introduces playmates of the year, I usually get distracted and my online research takes on a whole different character.

I wonder if there is some sort of bromide vaccine thingie out there...?
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Daveric



Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
On the other hand, this article is not written for the antivaccinationists, because they don’t listen to logic anyways. They ignore real science to invent their own, based on lies, pseudoscience, and logical fallacies.

Oh, really?

Well, how about these:

From JAMA:
February 18, 2014
Dosing schedule of pneumococcal vaccine linked with increased risk of getting multiresistant strain

Or how about the CDC Documents That Show Statistically Significant Risks of Autism Associated with Vaccine Preservative Thimerosal

From Autoimmunity Reviews: Study Reveals "Unavoidable" Danger of HPV Vaccines

Then, there are these:

An Italian study found that 61% of women experienced an adverse event after the administration of the first dose of HPV vaccine.

Pubmed Data : Recenti Prog Med. 2013 Jun ;104(6):262-6. PMID: 23801230
Article Published Date : May 31, 2013

Erythema multiforme has been reported as a possible side effect of vaccination for human papillomavirus.

Pubmed Data : Dermatology. 2010;220(1):60-2. Epub 2009 Nov 3. PMID: 19887766
Article Published Date : Jan 01, 2010

HPV vaccination does not have a therapeutic effect in young women with pre-existing human papillomavirus infection.

Pubmed Data : JAMA. 2007 Aug 15;298(7):743-53. PMID: 17699008
Article Published Date : Aug 15, 2007

HPV vaccination has been linked to demyelination.

Pubmed Data : J Child Neurol. 2010 Mar;25(3):321-7. PMID: 20189933
Article Published Date : Mar 01, 2010

HPV vaccination is associated with reported side effects in (over) 23.5% of vaccinated girls studied.

Pubmed Data : Community Pract. 2010 Jun;83(6):30-3. PMID: 20586376
Article Published Date : Jun 01, 2010

Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) vaccine is associated with demyelinating events.

Pubmed Data : Mult Scler. 2009 Jan;15(1):116-9. Epub 2008 Sep 19. PMID: 18805844
Article Published Date : Jan 01, 2009

Noticeable adverse reactions to the HPV vaccine occured in 22% of those polled.

Pubmed Data : Aten Primaria. 2010 Dec 14. Epub 2010 Dec 14. PMID: 21163554
Article Published Date : Dec 14, 2010

Postlicensure safety survelliance has revealed a disproportionate reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events following quadrivalent HPV vaccination.

Pubmed Data : JAMA. 2009 Aug 19;302(7):750-7. PMID: 19690307
Article Published Date : Aug 19, 2009

The risk of miscarriage increases following HPV vaccination.
Click here to read the entire abstract
Pubmed Data : BMJ. 2010;340:c712. Epub 2010 Mar 2. PMID: 20197322
Article Published Date : Jan 01, 2010

The way that the effectiveness of HPV vaccines are framed influences whether or not respondents believe they are effective and their acceptance level of vaccine mandate policies.

Pubmed Data : Patient Educ Couns. 2010 Sep 17. Epub 2010 Sep 17. PMID: 20851560
Article Published Date : Sep 17, 2010

There were 69 reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) after Gardasil vaccination that occurred in the United States between 2006 and 2009.

Pubmed Data : Vaccine. 2010 Sep 23. Epub 2010 Sep 23. PMID: 20869467
Article Published Date : Sep 23, 2010

Possible systemic lupus erythematosus following HPV immunization has been reported.

Pubmed Data : Lupus. 2012 ;21(2):158-61. PMID: 22235047
Article Published Date : Jan 01, 2012

The HPV16 vaccine carries with it significant cross-reactivity risk due to the homologies that exist between the HPV and human proteome.

Pubmed Data : J Exp Ther Oncol. 2009;8(1):65-76. PMID: 19827272
Article Published Date : Jan 01, 2009

Vaccination may contribute to causing a wide variety of autoimmune disorders.

Pubmed Data : Discov Med. 2010 Feb;9(45):90-7. PMID: 20193633
Article Published Date : Feb 01, 2010

Just let me know if you need any more.

Oh, and have I mentioned that the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has paid out billions of dollars in such cases, like 6,702 cases averaging $933,000 each over a 20-year period?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Daveric.

Ah, I see you've been on the anti-vaccine facebook page. I would strongly encourage any interested readers to go there. Please read some of the comments posted. I can't think of any better way to demonstrate just how
"logical" Dr. Tenpenny's "disciples" are

https://www.facebook.com/notes/dr-tenpenny-on-vaccines/vaccines-cause-harm-a-few-of-many-medical-references/10150193343593344

As for Dr. Tenpenny hereself:

"Dr. Sherri Tenpenny is reportedly a doctor, although according to her website, she no longer practices medicine in any recognizable way. Perhaps that's why she utters completely idiotic statements such as this one pointed out to me by Brother Orac:

Study these numbers. We've had SARS, Bird flu and Swine flu. On average, approx. 190 children/year die from the flu. Considering there are about 62M kids under the 14 years of age in the US, this is NOT "statistically signficant" and should not even make the radar screen. See how they manipulate parents into vaccinations?

Next year, PLEASE do not be afraid of the flu. Ever person here should pass this on to at least 25 people! Please pass this to at least 25 friends.

Before we get to the above inane statement, let's see what Dr. Tenpenny claims about her own expertise:

Dr. Sherri Tenpenny is respected as one of the country's most knowledgeable and outspoken physicians regarding the impact of vaccines on health.

As a member of the prestigious National Speaker's Association, Dr. Tenpenny is an outspoken advocate for free choice in healthcare, including the right to refuse vaccination.

No. No, she's not. Paul Offit is a nationally known vaccine expert. Dr. Tenpenny is not. If you're going to call yourself an expert on vaccines and vaccine-preventable diseases, you should probably have training in infectious disease or immunology and you should probably have published significant research. Tenpenny is a washed-up osteopath who has given up real practice to pursue the one vestige of quackery left in osteopathic education---manipulation. And being "a member of the prestigious National Speakers Association" only means that you are a member of an association of public speakers; it says nothing about your qualifications to speak on any particular topic. No physician with real medical expertise would list something like that rather than, say, their medically-related qualifications.

Anyway, the statement quoted above posted by Tenpenny on her facebook page. The remarkable thing about it is that it's not even wrong. Well, sure, the facts are wrong, but the conclusions don't even make sense. First of all, far more than 190 kids have died this year as a result of the H1N1 pandemic. The CDC does not have complete numbers yet as local agencies have not finished reporting their data, but data to date have been disturbing. Normally, seasonal flu kills the old and infirm. The current H1N1 pandemic has already killed 221 children in the US, and that's just the laboratory-confirmed cases that have been reported to the CDC. That's a lot of preventable pediatric deaths, but only a fraction of actual pediatric deaths for this season. And the pediatric death rate for pandemic influenza is much higher than during normal influenza seasons.

But Tenpenny claims that this number is not "statistically significant". What does that mean? Does she even know? Statistical significance is a tool used when analyzing data, not when interpreting its moral significance. If, for example, you did a study in which you arbitrarily determined that a p value of < 0.05 would be significant, and the data failed to reach this, then your results would not be statistically significant. They may or may not be clinically significant. In looking at raw data, such as the number of confirmed pediatric flu deaths, statistical significance is meaningless.

What isn't meaningless is that there are hundreds of dead kids that wouldn't have been dead if this pandemic hadn't happened, and whose deaths might have been prevented by aggressive vaccination programs. Anti-vaccination lunatics are so deeply inculcated in their cult beliefs that dead children mean nothing to them. As a parent and a human being, I find this abominable."


Useless, I know - at least as far as you're concerned.

By the way, though, I find it symptomatic that you posted this:

"johnslat wrote:
On the other hand, this article is not written for the antivaccinationists, because they don’t listen to logic anyways. They ignore real science to invent their own, based on lies, pseudoscience, and logical fallacies."

because johnslat did NOT write that; johnslat QUOTED it. But you probably don't see the difference.



http://scientopia.org/blogs/whitecoatunderground/2009/12/30/damned-lies-and-idiots/

Regards,
John
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

How could you not write such things! I bet you didn't write this article that I'm posting either! SO, inconsiderate! Grr hiss boo!

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26734465

Polio! It's back! But no link between its surprising return and the wartime difficulties in immunising children - none, not a jot! I blame big pharma. And you, Johnslat, grrr. Somehow....


With immunised greetings

Sasha
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daveric wrote:

Oh, and have I mentioned that the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has paid out billions of dollars in such cases, like 6,702 cases averaging $933,000 each over a 20-year period?


6,702 cases in 20 years. Without a vaccine there would be double that number of cases of polio ANNUALLY in the USA alone.
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Daveric



Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Ah, I see you've been on the anti-vaccine facebook page.

Well, then maybe it's time for glasses. I am now, and always have been, exclusively on Facelessbook, something you may not see.

You, obviously, are on Facebook whose CEO, Mark Zuckerberg, once called its users "dumb f*cks." And no, he didn't say the asterisk. I guess he's on to something, and he oughta know.

Anyway, almost the entire rest of your post a straw man. Wanna try again?


johnslat wrote:
By the way, though, I find it symptomatic that you posted this:

"johnslat wrote:
On the other hand, this article is not written for the antivaccinationists, because they don’t listen to logic anyways. They ignore real science to invent their own, based on lies, pseudoscience, and logical fallacies."

because johnslat did NOT write that; johnslat QUOTED it. But you probably don't see the difference.


http://scientopia.org/blogs/whitecoatunderground/2009/12/30/damned-lies-and-idiots/

Regards,
John

Now, John, I think you know that I did NOT write the word "wrote," and that it is put there automatically by the board software. I'd hate to call you a liar, so let's just say that at best you are merely wrong.

I see the difference. You are the one who needs glasses, but not the rose-colored ones.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Daveric

Nope, I've decided to give up arguing with whackos for Lent, a sacrifice, sure - but think of all the good it'll do for my soul.

Regards,
John
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat!

How can you say this? You are the only one who really talks to me on this board, but now you are giving it up for Lent? What am I supposed to do? Why not just give up chocolate instead? Then we can debate historical inevitability and manifest destiny still...


With sugarless tea greetings

Sasha
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:08 pm    Post subject: Cold shoulder Reply with quote

You can breathe easy, Sasha; he's giving up whackos, not crackpots. Laughing
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear grahamb,

True - and it's easy to tell the difference. The whackos ALWAYS take themselves and the hobbyhorses they ride in one SO seriously.

In addition, they're almost always mad - mad/angry, too. Very Happy

Regards,
John
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whimsical1



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 30
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just have to say - You guys are so much fun to read...
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat and all and sundry

I'll just have you know that I was twice voted "Most likely to descend into maniacal fits of despotic rage" in my Young Marxists' Training Camp for Future Vozhds. In addition, I have planned several purges of the Party ranks, and executed millions of wreckers and splitters with a blood lust that borders on demonic. Mere mention of Piggie arguments about inherent contradictions in Socialist ideology is enough to have icepick-equipped secret agents dispatched to your residence in enemy countries.

Don't you dare consign ME to mere crackpot status!! Or I'll break out the heavy guns: my super-secret doomsday Communist plot - global immunisation!!!!!!


With Communist greetings

Sasha
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Daveric



Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HLJHLJ wrote:
Daveric wrote:

Oh, and have I mentioned that the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has paid out billions of dollars in such cases, like 6,702 cases averaging $933,000 each over a 20-year period?


6,702 cases in 20 years. Without a vaccine there would be double that number of cases of polio ANNUALLY in the USA alone.

Source? Actually, the vast majority of polio today occur in vaccinated individuals, i.e., they are iatrogenic (vaccine-induced). Here's just one example:

Mysterious polio-like illness found in five California children
Date: February 23, 2014
Source: American Academy of Neurology (AAN)
Summary:
Researchers have identified a polio-like syndrome in a cluster of children from California over a one-year period, according to a case report released. Polio is a contagious disease that sometimes caused paralysis. The United States experienced a polio epidemic in the 1950s, until a vaccine was introduced. The five children experienced paralysis of one or more arms or legs that came on suddenly and reached the height of its severity within two days of onset. Three of the children had a respiratory illness before the symptoms began. All of the children had been previously vaccinated against poliovirus. The children were treated but their symptoms did not improve and they still had poor limb function after six months.


johnslat wrote:
Dear Daveric

Nope, I've decided to give up arguing with whackos for Lent, a sacrifice, sure - but think of all the good it'll do for my soul.

Regards,
John

I can't say I blame you for giving up, even if your reason is a cop-out.

Happy Easter!
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject: Megalomania Reply with quote

I'd love to play Risk with Sasha and steppe (!) all over his empire.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pah! You won't stand a chance! Got any annexation cards to play, eh, eh?
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