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VKU Visa Warning
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SiThep



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 32
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Jef dam's work below. I think it's pretty clear what this guy's game is.

How's it going. If you're looking for a language school gig you may be limited with your choices due to your degree. However, the regulations are a lot laxer than some people would have you believe and there are ways for companies to get around them if they think you're worth the punt. The vast majority of people don't comply with the DIKNAS regulations and it doesn't stop them from getting the correct, or an approximation of the correct, paperwork.

Best advice I can give you is to apply and see what happens. The worst thing a company can say is no. I've included a list of websites for language schools, all of which pay more than EF, some of which will be able to get you a KITAS etc.

http://www.eec.co.id

http://tbi.co.id/

http://k-elt.com/about/about_index

http://www.directenglish.com/

http://www.inlingua.com/centers-countries.asp?RefCtr=10

http://aimjakarta.com/english/

High schools and international schools usually begin their recruitment in and around March / April and if you can get into one they will get you the correct papers regardless of your degree and generally 15m up. Experience is a must though.

EF pay is pretty bad but it's quite livable. AFAIK the starting wage for someone with a CELTA is around 9M, or at least it was when I work there 4 years ago. If overtime goes your way you could potentially pocket about 10M a month. You won't be living the high life but you definitely won't go hungry, and all and all it's quite a soft number and most of the DoS's working for them have enough common sense to see the job for exactly what it is. Worst case scenario you can use a year in EF to research better jobs and make contacts in order to move on.

I hope this helps. Good luck.
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jef dam



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh-oh.......

Quote:


From: SiThep
To: jef dam
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:31 am
Subject: Where Else to Go?

Greetings! I've been offered a position from EF too. Have a major in Politics. Mightn't be the most popular major in Indonesia so I've heard. Also don't think EF pays enough by a long shot. Any suggestions of where might be better?


Quote:

From: SiThep
To: jef dam
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:39 am
Subject: Re:

Thanks for all this dude. I have an interview with IELC. They pay 8 million but the job is in Solo which is a pretty cheap city to live in from what people say. Ever heard anything good or bad about them?

Terima kasih


Anyway, I'm sure the ban-hammer will be dropping for someone sooner rather than later, so I'll take my leave and let the malcontents, none of whom appear to actually live in Indonesia, wax lyrical on the finer points of, erm, ESL teaching?

Hati2
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SiThep



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 32
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jef Dam made a post on one of the threads volunteering to help people who were looking to work in Indonesia. He suggested they PM him. I did so but he responded by telling me that most teachers are not working on the right visa these days. He gave me a list of schools I might consider where things weren't always legal. These were EEC, TBI, KET and AIM.

I hadn't made a big deal about it at the time but I noticed since that he has been very aggressive with anyone who suggested that there any risks of working on the wrong visa. It seemed to me highly suspicious that not only has he been secretly giving advice about how to work illegally in Indonesia through PMs but has been attacking anyone who said it was dangerous in the forums.
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jef dam



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many shoddily constructed straw-men being bandied about in this thread it's a veritable fire hazard!

If people giving you advice on the internet upsets you, perhaps you shouldn't go seeking advice on the internet.

As for getting aggressive with people suggesting there are risks working on the incorrect visa, please show me where.

I asked for a credible link to a story that Princess pulled out of thin air and explained why I was skeptical of the link she provided. Hardly 4chan level flaming, and quite a reasonable request considering she's talking about teachers getting deported from the country that I happen to be a teacher in.

Instead of providing a credible link to the latest news, Princess chucked her toys out of the pram, berated me for a post in another thread, and went on to make unfounded accusations about my motives for posting in this thread.

I have no problem with anyone warning people about the risks of working on VKU visa's. I do, however, find posting invented stories as fact, and using an on-going child abuse case involving an international school as a make weight for the story, incredibly crass.

princesss wrote:
Latest news is that immigration has raided a school in Bogor. 7 expat teachers who were employed on VKU business consultant visas have been caught. They are going to be deported. This is part of a crackdown on foreign teachers following the JIS pedophile case. Once again, people should avoid schools who ask you to work on a VKU visa. As has been repeatedly said on here, you risk being deported.

http://gjismyp.wordpress.com/
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SiThep wrote:
This is Jef dam's work below. I think it's pretty clear what this guy's game is.

How's it going. If you're looking for a language school gig you may be limited with your choices due to your degree. However, the regulations are a lot laxer than some people would have you believe and there are ways for companies to get around them if they think you're worth the punt. The vast majority of people don't comply with the DIKNAS regulations and it doesn't stop them from getting the correct, or an approximation of the correct, paperwork.

Best advice I can give you is to apply and see what happens. The worst thing a company can say is no. I've included a list of websites for language schools, all of which pay more than EF, some of which will be able to get you a KITAS etc.

http://www.eec.co.id

http://tbi.co.id/

http://k-elt.com/about/about_index

http://www.directenglish.com/

http://www.inlingua.com/centers-countries.asp?RefCtr=10

http://aimjakarta.com/english/

High schools and international schools usually begin their recruitment in and around March / April and if you can get into one they will get you the correct papers regardless of your degree and generally 15m up. Experience is a must though.

EF pay is pretty bad but it's quite livable. AFAIK the starting wage for someone with a CELTA is around 9M, or at least it was when I work there 4 years ago. If overtime goes your way you could potentially pocket about 10M a month. You won't be living the high life but you definitely won't go hungry, and all and all it's quite a soft number and most of the DoS's working for them have enough common sense to see the job for exactly what it is. Worst case scenario you can use a year in EF to research better jobs and make contacts in order to move on.

I hope this helps. Good luck.


Jef Dam has been caught red-handed offering advice of how to work illegally in Indonesia and he still keeps criticizing others. Incredible. What pray tell does "the approximation" of the right paperwork mean? It means working on a VKU visa which is completely illegal. You cannot teach English on a business consultant visa. End of story? The schools that do this are placing teachers in danger.

Also how does this site feel about the fact that Jef Dam is procuring teachers for schools that don't even advertise on here like KET and Direct English. Why don't these schools just cough up a hundred bucks and place an ad rather than doing it on the cheap through Jef Dam? I am sure he will say he is doing this out of the kindness if his heart but one suspects he is receiving commission.


Last edited by princesss on Thu May 22, 2014 2:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jef Dam has been caught red-handed offering advice of how to work illegally in Indonesia and he still keeps criticizing others. Incredible. What pray tell does "the approximation of the right paperwork"mean? He was using the misleading word "right" about the completely wrong visa. He is tricking people into working on a VKU visa which is completely illegal. You cannot teach English on a business consultant visa. End of story. Is JD going to claim that 6 flights to Singapore per year to do VKU visa runs is legal?The schools that do this are placing teachers in danger.

How does this site feel about the fact that Jef Dam is procuring teachers for schools that don't even advertise on here like KET and Direct English. Why don't these schools just cough up a hundred bucks and place an ad rather than doing it on the cheap through Jef Dam? I am sure he will say he is doing this out of the kindness if his heart but one suspects he is getting commission.


Last edited by princesss on Thu May 22, 2014 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 142
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few comments here......1st of all regarding the 'outing' of 'Jef Dam'- I fail to see how the guy has been caught 'red handed' as it were....in what way is he 'advising' people to work illegally? He merely points out the ambiguity of the system here-how some schools/companies are able to hire teachers 'legally' with what appear to be inappropriate qualifications, while other schools are unable to get the Kitas at all.
To 'SiThep'-remind me to never hold open the door when you are behind me mate! 'I think it's pretty clear what this guy's game is'-REALLY??! well lets hear it from you then-all I can see is a PM that offers genuinely worthwhile advice and information for anybody thinking of coming to Indonesia to work...not the words of a recruiter-or somebody who has a vested interest in any particular school. I wonder what motive you have for this malicious bout of 'back-stabbing.'
Finally-'Princess', what is your motive in contributing to this thread? The whole thing smacks to me of trying to 'hook' the original advice regarding not working on a VKU directly to TBI Bogor through a rather weak and questionable blog posting.....as pointed out by Jef Dam-which you took such offence to!
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 142
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few comments here......1st of all regarding the 'outing' of 'Jef Dam'- I fail to see how the guy has been caught 'red handed' as it were....in what way is he 'advising' people to work illegally? He merely points out the ambiguity of the system here-how some schools/companies are able to hire teachers 'legally' with what appear to be inappropriate qualifications, while other schools are unable to get the Kitas at all.
To 'SiThep'-remind me to never hold open the door when you are behind me mate! 'I think it's pretty clear what this guy's game is'-REALLY??! well lets hear it from you then-all I can see is a PM that offers genuinely worthwhile advice and information for anybody thinking of coming to Indonesia to work...not the words of a recruiter-or somebody who has a vested interest in any particular school. I wonder what motive you have for this malicious bout of 'back-stabbing.'
Finally-'Princess', what is your motive in contributing to this thread? The whole thing smacks to me of trying to 'hook' the original advice regarding not working on a VKU directly to TBI Bogor through a rather weak and questionable blog posting.....as pointed out by Jef Dam-which you took such offence to!
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A principal of a school reported that spot checks of schools are underway and he mentions that 7 teachers on business visas have been sent home. A link to that website was posted. Now I have no idea why a school principal would go online under his own nsme and say these things if they weren't true. Presumably the principal of National Plus school is a person of good character but I don't know him personally. Is Tazz suggesting he is making this stuff up for fun? What motive would he have to lie?

Then there is the ridiculous double standard of Jef Dam ranting about how credible the source is when he was saying Wall Street was having visa troubles based on a single Facebook page which he refused to even show a link to. Why does he care about the credibility of other people's sources but not his own?

And then how does he know which six schools employ people on "an approximation of the right paperwork" if he doesn't represent them in any way? It's clear he is attacking any negative news about VKU visas because he has been assuring people falsely that they aresafe.
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tazz wrote:
A few comments here... He merely points out the ambiguity of the system here-how some schools/companies are able to hire teachers 'legally' with what appear to be inappropriate qualifications, while other schools are unable to get the Kitas at all.


Is that what he was doing really? If he had just said in a general way that some schools bend the rules then that wouldn't be an issue. But he has given a list of 6 exact schools with their wesbites, sugesting them as potential employers. Why these schools and not others?

I hardly think it's fair that other schools have to pay for advertsing and JEF Dam does it "on the cheap" through his PM box. He looks like a covert recruiter for people without qualificatons.
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p1randal



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much of this board can be summed up with a "Buyer beware" sign. Anyone who takes things on here as the gospel is crazy haha. Jefdam and Princess both cited things that are shaky at best. As most of us know, things in Indonesia are "not the same for everyone" so just because something happened in Bogor that doesn't mean anything will happen in Jakarta, Etc.

I don't really care if people are working here illegally. If you don't have a degree in English/English Teaching/MA TESOL you are really teaching something you don't have any business teaching. So in my mind it is all the same, let the schools hire them and if they get caught they get caught. Spending 2 minutes on here will show you enough to know that possibility exists.

I would have to say that if you can't find a Nat Plus job you wither aren't remotely qualified or you aren't trying hard enough. I have a friend who has an ICT background and got job offers all over the place to teach English. Granted he is in the country but it isn't that hard.
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jef dam



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

Such a wonderful farce this thread has become, save for Tazz's and P1randal's sane posts.

Tell you what, those posts of mine which are aggressive, advising people to work illegally, or covert adverts for every language school in the greater Jakarta area, please report them to the moderating team.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jef dam wrote:
Laughing

Such a wonderful farce this thread has become, save for Tazz's and P1randal's sane posts.

Tell you what, those posts of mine which are aggressive, advising people to work illegally, or covert adverts for every language school in the greater Jakarta area, please report them to the moderating team.


You never know when to stop, do you? Why escalate things when they had settled down? Every time you come on Dave's you start a fight. You seem to thrive on conflict.

If you want to debate the facts, do you mind explaining why you suggested Direct English, AIM, TBI and KET as the places to go for the people without the correct qualifications? Do you have contacts at those schools or were you just guessing?

Why did you name those schools and give their addresses? But then again, why bother. Who could trust your answers by this point?

Let's just let the argument drop. We've both had our says.
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jef dam



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Report my posts, let the mods sort it out.

If asking for a link, being skeptical of an unsourced story, and compiling a list of schools to apply for and providing a realistic assessment of someones prospects of employment via private message, after being asked to do so no less, is inappropriate carry on then they won't be long seeing to it that I'm dealt with.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on past experience, I think complaining about threads and getting them taken down is more your style than mine. Every time someone says something you don't like you get aggressive and then play the victim if people challenge you. But if you insist in coming on here and trying to do free advertising for certain schools by PMing users, then that's up to you.

http://tbi.co.id/

http://k-elt.com/about/about_index

http://www.directenglish.com/

http://www.inlingua.com/centers-countries.asp?RefCtr=10

http://aimjakarta.com/english/

You do realize you are cheating Dave's out of rightful advertising revenue by this deceitful practice though. Other schools have to pay to get their name on this site.

The big question for me remains, what exactly did you mean by "an approximation of the right visa"? You either have a KITAS (work visa) or you don't. If you work on a VKU or a tourist visa that is ILLEGAL. Why do you want to fight this very simple and very clear point over and over?

Does your employer provide you with a KITAS?
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