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TESL.ca Standard #2 TESL 250hrs+50hr prac: Respected Int'ly?

 
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LongShiKong



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 881
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: TESL.ca Standard #2 TESL 250hrs+50hr prac: Respected Int'ly? Reply with quote

I did a 100 hr TESL in Vancouver years ago that's not on on TESL.ca's list. I thought of doing the Delta but since most of my teaching has been with kids and I want to get back to adults, this type of course would be good refresher. The only question is how acceptable is it internationally?

Given that the on-campus cost at Algonquin College is $6,548 CDN (all totalled), it makes more sense to do it online:

Conestoga College, Kitchener (OntarioLearn) Not sure what the fees are( also accredited by TESLOntario) but on TESL.ca, not indicated in green as being an online alternative.

U of Sask. (also accredited by OntarioTESL, AlbertaTESL) Course, registration & material fees: $4,965

U of Calgary Course & prac fees: $4,105 (not sure about materials)

Coventry House Int'l. (onTESOL.com) ** THE CHEAPEST AT $975 ** Despite the accreditation by Canada as Standard #2 and the UK (ACTDEC), this one seems a bit too good to be true. For example: the claim on their website: "Save $159! Free TEYL or TBEC specialist course when you register in the 250-hour TESOL Diploma." Anyone have problems with this one on their CV hoping to land a position in Canada?

Vancouver Community College (broken weblink for the online version)

By the way, anyone know if BC (Vancouver's province) has an accrediting body for TESL cert's? On it's institutional membership list, BC TEAL states: "BC TEAL is not an accrediting association and institutional membership does not imply that BC TEAL endorses or promotes institutional members." Wish I'd done my homework a bit better as I realize the unaccredited TESL mill in Vancouver that issued my cert for $900 a decade ago is still in business. And to think, I could've had a Standard #2 rather than a #0 for LESS!!! Crying or Very sad

And I didn't think there were online Cert's that were accredited! Seems if you call it 'distance learning', you distance it from the more dubious online certs. Wink


Last edited by LongShiKong on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 843
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of my former classmates are currently working abroad with their TESL Standard Level Two certificates - China, Korea, Japan, Uzbekistan (Laughing), and Austria, to name a few that I recall.

Depending on the location, you may need to point out that it is goes above and beyond the standard CELTA certificate, if they are unfamiliar with TESL Canada. In your position, I might choose U of Sask or U of Calgary, just to give it the name. I have had nothing but excellent responses to my resume which states a 250 hour certificate from U of Fraser Valley (well, it was a college at the time).
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LongShiKong



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 881
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
All of my former classmates are currently working abroad with their TESL Standard Level Two certificates - China, Korea, Japan, Uzbekistan (Laughing), and Austria, to name a few that I recall.


I'm sure I'd be forced to go overseas again too to get my 2,000 documented hrs to go from 'interim' to 'permanent' Standard 2 status and upon return, I'd still have to compete with those who speak French and/or have extensive IEP, EAP, IELTS, TOEFL, or Bus Eng experience in Canada. Crying or Very sad

santi84 wrote:
In your position, I might choose U of Sask or U of Calgary, just to give it the name....

How important is 'name' in Canada for Standard 2 certs? Does it only become so when employers receive reams of CVs? I'm trying to get a sense of just how competitive the market for ESL teaching in Canada is for those without a B.Ed, or masters.

Last night I was reading GambateBingBangBOOM's insightful 2008 post on TESL Canada / Ontario - you're joking. Correct me if I'm wrong but the fact an outsider, Coventry House Int'l, can drastically undercut equivalent local online cert costs proves the point:

Quote:
A lot of jobs ask for a certificate recognized by TESL Canada, (or TESL Ontario) because that way they can be sure that it isn't one of those quick intro certificates offered by private organizations that you see listed in the classified section of the newspaper. That's not the same as asking for certificate from the organization itself (so long as the training is well known, like from a university like UofT, Brock or Carleton or a community college like Humber, Seneca or Algonquin). So coughing up the money to one of theses organizations is not always necessary. A lot of people go through university or college training for a year to get their TESL certificate (the university ones, at least, are basically the same as an MA in TESOL from other countries, but with a practicum and without the final paper), meet the requirements of TESL Ontario, and then not bother with getting certified. Maybe you should just go look for a job and if the lack of the certificate from TESL Canada is holding you back, then fork over the cash. If you are in Ontario, then you should be aware that with all the people who are graduating from the community colleges and universities with the aforementioned one year certificate, then there is a lot of highly qualified competition around and that drives down work conditions.

Community college and university programs are designed to make money. The fact that they churn out far more labour than the maket can handle isn't their concern (until the wages for those jobs drop so much that people decide not to take their program any more). That's part of why when you ask your university or college TESL profs for job hunting advice they will tell you it's their job to teach you how to teach, not how to get a job (because they already know that with more than 5 university and college programs in TESL in Toronto, each with 30 or so students, and knowing that people who do their certiciates in Ottawa are likely to go to Toronto for jobs, and that the people in St Catherines and Kitchener are almost definatley going to go to Toronto, that there are far, far more people graduating each year than there jobs in the province). But in fact, a TESL program is actually a good one to take, because then you are able to leave Toronto and Ontario and Canada and get a job. Unfortunately, because the program that is called an MA TESOL in the States and Australia and other countries is called a Certificate TESL in Ontario, you get locked out of the jobs that require an MA. But that way the universities in Ontario can try to get you back to do their MA in Applied Linguistics, or Second Language Education. They are banking on people not wanting to just spend 15- 30 thousand dollars to change the letters on their resume from a foreign university (in fact they will tell you that people who do distance MAs cannot get jobs in Ontario, although that's just not true. The universities also tell prospective TESL certificate candidates that if you go to a community college for the certificate you save some money, but you won't be able to get into the MAs in the province and therefore your career will have a pretty low ceiling, which is also not true), but also not wanting to find a way out of the Hogwan / eikaiwa edutainment by a blond haired clown type of teaching that marks most of it in Asia.
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 843
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies, I misunderstood, I thought you wanted to stay overseas! Laughing

The name in Canada does not matter - the only thing that matters is the TESL Canada list.

The market here is bunk. There are jobs, but not ones to live off of (unless you come to Montreal). I'm currently heading back to school for my provincial teacher's license as a result (remember I have two very young kiddos and can't work late/overnights due to childcare).

Are you thinking Vancouver specifically?
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LongShiKong



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 881
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
All of my former classmates are currently working abroad with their TESL Standard Level Two certificates - China, Korea, Japan, Uzbekistan (Laughing), and Austria, to name a few that I recall.


I'm sure I'd be forced to go overseas again too to get my 2,000 documented hrs to go from 'interim' to 'permanent' Standard 2 status and upon return, I'd still have to compete with those who speak French and/or have extensive IEP, EAP, IELTS, TOEFL, or Bus Eng experience in Canada. Crying or Very sad

santi84 wrote:
In your position, I might choose U of Sask or U of Calgary, just to give it the name....

How important is 'name' in Canada for Standard 2 certs? Does it only become so when employers receive reams of CVs? I'm trying to get a sense of just how competitive the market for ESL teaching in Canada is for those without a B.Ed, or masters.

Last night I was reading GambateBingBangBOOM's insightful 2008 post on TESL Canada / Ontario - you're joking. Correct me if I'm wrong but the fact an outsider, Coventry House Int'l, can drastically undercut equivalent local online cert costs proves the point:

Quote:
A lot of jobs ask for a certificate recognized by TESL Canada, (or TESL Ontario) because that way they can be sure that it isn't one of those quick intro certificates offered by private organizations that you see listed in the classified section of the newspaper. That's not the same as asking for certificate from the organization itself (so long as the training is well known, like from a university like UofT, Brock or Carleton or a community college like Humber, Seneca or Algonquin). So coughing up the money to one of theses organizations is not always necessary. A lot of people go through university or college training for a year to get their TESL certificate (the university ones, at least, are basically the same as an MA in TESOL from other countries, but with a practicum and without the final paper), meet the requirements of TESL Ontario, and then not bother with getting certified. Maybe you should just go look for a job and if the lack of the certificate from TESL Canada is holding you back, then fork over the cash. If you are in Ontario, then you should be aware that with all the people who are graduating from the community colleges and universities with the aforementioned one year certificate, then there is a lot of highly qualified competition around and that drives down work conditions.

Community college and university programs are designed to make money. The fact that they churn out far more labour than the maket can handle isn't their concern (until the wages for those jobs drop so much that people decide not to take their program any more). That's part of why when you ask your university or college TESL profs for job hunting advice they will tell you it's their job to teach you how to teach, not how to get a job (because they already know that with more than 5 university and college programs in TESL in Toronto, each with 30 or so students, and knowing that people who do their certiciates in Ottawa are likely to go to Toronto for jobs, and that the people in St Catherines and Kitchener are almost definatley going to go to Toronto, that there are far, far more people graduating each year than there jobs in the province). But in fact, a TESL program is actually a good one to take, because then you are able to leave Toronto and Ontario and Canada and get a job. Unfortunately, because the program that is called an MA TESOL in the States and Australia and other countries is called a Certificate TESL in Ontario, you get locked out of the jobs that require an MA. But that way the universities in Ontario can try to get you back to do their MA in Applied Linguistics, or Second Language Education. They are banking on people not wanting to just spend 15- 30 thousand dollars to change the letters on their resume from a foreign university (in fact they will tell you that people who do distance MAs cannot get jobs in Ontario, although that's just not true. The universities also tell prospective TESL certificate candidates that if you go to a community college for the certificate you save some money, but you won't be able to get into the MAs in the province and therefore your career will have a pretty low ceiling, which is also not true), but also not wanting to find a way out of the Hogwan / eikaiwa edutainment by a blond haired clown type of teaching that marks most of it in Asia.
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