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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaguyahime wrote:
Not sure if "never again" is what you want to say?
According to this article there were almost 20,000 Japanese students at US universities in 2011:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/05/19/national/incentives-needed-to-lure-students-to-u-s-experts-say/#.UidWjLyEE9k
is that up or down from previous years?
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Down. Fewer go to America than back in the 90s.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Down. Fewer go to America than back in the 90s.
that's what I have heard too. Been a long trend. Thought there was a reversal for once
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is why.
Obviously the economy hasn`t helped as fewer parents can`t give their kids money to go abroad.
Where I work, some students go to the US but have to take out a loan.
There are also scholarships but students need to get a certain GPA.

Some think the young are more insular. Often it seems students just want to go to the beach in Hawaii.
Certainly more students go on to higher education than before, and learning English takes work.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think ecomincs and insularism is what's up


My wife and her friends are super picky about food. To the point where one of em just brings a suitcase of instant ramen on vacation. As they won't eat foreign foods when abroad.
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DLIguy



Joined: 29 Jun 2013
Posts: 167
Location: Being led around by the nose...by you-know-who!

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The question is why.


Arabs.

Japanese economy go "pop".

Generation-long economy stay flat.

Oil prices go up.

Arab butts fill seats.

School coffers go up.

Ethics go out the window.

Teachers go to union against pro-petrodollars blinding managment eyes.

Academic standards go down.

Lies are believed.

Managers attack teachers for doing their jobs.

Crazy cycle repeats itself.
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budgie



Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might have panned out that the Japanese became more proficient in English if it hadn't been for the militarism of the time, subsequent war and defeat, and Japan's reaction to it by turning inward again. I believe there was another chance in the eighties too, but then the bubble burst and once again they hunkered down and tried to shut the world out. The default reaction for Japan is to close the door.
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teacheratlarge



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 192
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think for a while in the 80s Japan thought they were on top of the world and studying English (among other things) was an affordable hobby. Now, it is seen as a serious subject, but only by a few, and some don't have the budget (time and/or money) to make serious efforts to master it.
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Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
The question is why.
Obviously the economy hasn`t helped as fewer parents can`t give their kids money to go abroad.
Where I work, some students go to the US but have to take out a loan.
There are also scholarships but students need to get a certain GPA.

Some think the young are more insular. Often it seems students just want to go to the beach in Hawaii.
Certainly more students go on to higher education than before, and learning English takes work.
I don't have the references to hand, but basically, the path from kindergarten to a position in a prestigious company is very narrow, and studying abroad takes you off it. Overseas students miss the penultimate year hiring, and companies don't like the self-confidence and independence of thought they seem to acquire in their time abroad. A lot of them end up as little-more than English-speaking secretaries.

This is even a problem for academics. I know a Japanese lady who went to Oxford University as a graduate student to study the works of a well-know 20th century Oxford scholar. She told me that her academic credentials were not viewed highly, because she did her work as a student of Oxford university, rather than as a visiting scholar from a Japanese institution. (Oh the irony!) In the end, she had to do another post-graduate degree in Japan before any Japanese institution would consider her for a post.

You said that the young are more insular. You're right, they are, but they end up that way for a reason!
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a log of hogwash! While working at an Eikaiwa, I met many very successful people you had studied/ lived abroad for extended periods of time.
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Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:
What a log of hogwash! While working at an Eikaiwa, I met many very successful people you had studied/ lived abroad for extended periods of time.
Well, I can't confirm the stuff about how recruiters view foreigners. That's just something I read in the Japan Times (if memory serves). But I believe the Japanese academic who went to Oxford.
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:
What a log of hogwash! While working at an Eikaiwa, I met many very successful people you had studied/ lived abroad for extended periods of time.


I meet returnees who are successful in international/foreign companies, not so much with Japanese companies.

It's also something my university students worry about (I have a group of students researching this exact topic right now - entirely their choice of subject).
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pitarou wrote:
nightsintodreams wrote:
What a log of hogwash! While working at an Eikaiwa, I met many very successful people you had studied/ lived abroad for extended periods of time.
Well, I can't confirm the stuff about how recruiters view foreigners. That's just something I read in the Japan Times (if memory serves). But I believe the Japanese academic who went to Oxford.
You mean foreigners? Or Japanese who have studied abroad? The Oxford story itself sounds a but suss to me. There are a multitude of reasons why she might not have been hired that she didn't mention, most likely the fact that studying the works of an Oxford scholar doesn't sound like it would be that useful or sought after by many companies in our capitalist world.

I knew a ton of Japanese students at uni in England and after coming back to Japan more than 10 years ago they all got jobs very quickly at companies like Hitachi, Morgan Stanley, Glaxo Smith Kline, Northwest and Singapore Airlines, and spoke of no problems at having studied abroad. Of course these companies are slightly international in bent but surely after studying for 3 or 4 years abroad they would be exactly the kind of company you would have been aiming to work at in the first place.
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