Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Plunging Rupiah
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10, 11  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Indonesia
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kaptain_Kampung



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:11 am    Post subject: Koropsi Reply with quote

Local circuit judges make 2.7 million rupiah/month.

Cops' salaries start at 3 mil a month.

Both Pay gobs of money just to get those low-paying jobs.

Reason being? They stand to make fistfuls of dirty money.

So back to us teachers - in the KITAS game, it's a dirty business people. Pay to play or prepare for a longgggg wait.

Anyone catch that political propaganda in the Jakarta post Saturday? That Jokowi is loosening up the visas - well read deeper. That was specific to Manpower, not the MOE, which for us English teachers is the uglier half of the battle. Besides, the article highlights that things were getting better due to NOT implementing the bahasa language requirement (which was informally scrapped in April anyway), and the invention of the "online system" which would expedite the visa process. But let me tell you, having processed KITAS for years, the system has never been slower. They say it's because they are learning the online system, still inputting data manually, consolidating govt offices to "streamline", awaiting training, blah blah blah...don't believe the hogwash. If your school ain't stuffing envelopes, you ain't gettin' no KITAS for 6+ months minimum, and that's a fact Jack.

Ironically, the worse things get economically, the better they'll actually get for teachers. More bule will leave, more opportunities will open, and rules will eventually have to loosen up, but in indo-speed that's still a long reactionary wait from today I'm afraid...

So what should English teachers hope for? Better times or worse economically? Well, honestly, I couldn't tell ya. Buckle in,pony up, or get out I suppose...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
markustm



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:11 am    Post subject: Weathering a Storm Reply with quote

I guess at the end of the day, it really depends on what an expatriate teacher expects from living in Indonesia.

In the past and even some higher paid International school jobs, its often really only been the money, and the prestige of their position in Indonesian society. Sometimes it was just the availability of the girls in clubs, or living in the wild side of cities like Jakarta.

In a crisis, many of these people will simply leave, just as many teachers who only really came to Indonesia to escape the economic crisis in their home countries, will hop onto the first convenient flight, towards somewhere safe, and sterile like Singapore.

Some people might enjoy the culture, and feel at home in Indonesia. Unlike many western countries, Indonesia is family friendly, and many expatriates settle in, marry and have a family here. Many of these expatriates, may stay, despite a crisis, weathering the storm, and like many Indonesians find a way through it.

The adventurous, might simply ride the boat on the storm, just for the experience, after all money is never the main factor of living somewhere for an adventurer.

Some former Indonesian expatriates, who left the country with bitterness, will just look from afar, take pleasure in any bad news from Indonesia, copy and paste selected reports from an opinionated and flawed press, and generally wallow in the muddy depths of cynicism by posting the news on forums like this. When in reality, they offer no solution to a problem, or probably understand its cause.

Whatever way you look at it the rupiah is weakening, as are many of the world currencies at the moment, and during Indonesia's worse crisis in 1998, the rupiah dropped from 2.500 to the dollar, to 25.000, but bounced back to 5500 at the end of the year. Time will tell, if its the same, in the next few years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Koropsi Reply with quote

Kaptain_Kampung wrote:
Local circuit judges make 2.7 million rupiah/month.

Cops' salaries start at 3 mil a month.

Both Pay gobs of money just to get those low-paying jobs.

Reason being? They stand to make fistfuls of dirty money.

So back to us teachers - in the KITAS game, it's a dirty business people. Pay to play or prepare for a longgggg wait.

Anyone catch that political propaganda in the Jakarta post Saturday? That Jokowi is loosening up the visas - well read deeper. That was specific to Manpower, not the MOE, which for us English teachers is the uglier half of the battle. Besides, the article highlights that things were getting better due to NOT implementing the bahasa language requirement (which was informally scrapped in April anyway), and the invention of the "online system" which would expedite the visa process. But let me tell you, having processed KITAS for years, the system has never been slower. They say it's because they are learning the online system, still inputting data manually, consolidating govt offices to "streamline", awaiting training, blah blah blah...don't believe the hogwash. If your school ain't stuffing envelopes, you ain't gettin' no KITAS for 6+ months minimum, and that's a fact Jack.

Ironically, the worse things get economically, the better they'll actually get for teachers. More bule will leave, more opportunities will open, and rules will eventually have to loosen up, but in indo-speed that's still a long reactionary wait from today I'm afraid...

So what should English teachers hope for? Better times or worse economically? Well, honestly, I couldn't tell ya. Buckle in,pony up, or get out I suppose...


A very interesting post. Thanks for that. Recently we have had some users saying they got a KITAS within a few weeks and other saying they were told that waiting for 6 months was ''normal''. Your post explains what has been going on.

In your estimation, how big a 'present' does it take to get a KITAS (work visa) for a teacher in a timely fashion? Are we talking Rp5 million, 10 million or what? Perhaps it varies from case to case?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you really willing to pay that kind of money for a Kitas, when you're really raking in the cash and the overall prospects seem bad?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plumpy nut wrote:
Are you really willing to pay that kind of money for a Kitas, when you're [ not?] really raking in the cash and the overall prospects seem bad?


I don't think he is saying teachers are personally bribing Immigration to get a work visa. The Kaptain is suggesting that schools are being asked to give a fat envelope of money to get a KITAS processed in a timely manner. If you aren't willing to pay, they will drag their feet for months. This surely explains why some teachers are getting a visa in a matter of weeks and other people are waiting 6 months. It's pay for play.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaptain_Kampung



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:25 am    Post subject: patience and knowledge... Reply with quote

Indeed, funny money is customarily negotiated between a school's savvy visa agent and a greedy govt lackey. Bule are not privy to those indo-intricacies...

That's pretty much business as usual in this land. As Brad says, pay to play and cheapskates/do-gooders wait it out. Schools and agents do the dirty work, so don't get hung up on the details. Just be patient.

Without paying to bypass/expedite things, a teacher's Kitas process follows these steps:

Dinas (city council prescreening), MOE, Manpower, Immigration, IMTA, TELEX. Plan on 6+ months, barring rule changes/Ramadan slowdown/"lost paperwork"/slow appointment setting/other snags, which are sadly more of the norm than the exception.

Aspiring teachers wanting to work in indo are advised to secure a job offer 6 months out. Don't wait till a month before your contract ends in another country to start applying to indo, or you'll be crashing on Mom's couch for a little too long. If you need a quick fix job, Cambodia hires quick and painlessly. Work there while waiting out an Indo Kitas. As far as SEA goes, it's still the wild west there, probably the last bastion of old school quicky ESL jobs. Trendier spots like Thailand, Vietnam, and even China are taking longer these days and their visa processes are becoming more convoluted too. Not as ridiculous as Indonesia, but no longer a snap either...

It ain't like it used to be, but with some planning, knowledge, and tempered expectations, it's still good in indonesia. Don't let this post or the haters dissuade you. Just know what you're in for. Flaky backpackers are a thing of the past here... and on the bright side, the system really does weed out the riff-raff teacher wannabes and just nets the over-qualified indo lovers, and that's probably who you'd rather work with anyway. There's some great teaching talent here. Good things come to those who wait.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 512
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potential employment in Indonesia as a teacher. We are talking the broadest possible spectrum-from [former] 'International' schools-recruiting those with QTS from overseas, through lesser 'national +' operations-to the language mill operators, such as EF. Regardless of the potential teachers willingness to sit and wait 6 months for paperwork/ documents to be processed-how many of these employers are prepared to do the same?!! Do you think that EF, currently recruiting via Dave's job board, are telling potential employees about a 6 month wait? More likely they'll be expected to arrive and work for an extended period illegally-or else the job offer will be withdrawn and presented to the next bule prepared to take the risk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaptain_Kampung



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

true dat tazz, I'm just talking about schools using legit KITAS only hiring. Since the JIS debacle, many schools have gone the slippery slope of hiring on other visas while these slow Kitas process. such as SOCBUDS, VOA's, MBV's, marriage Kitas and Kitaps, you name it. It's either that or lose all the native teachers. Each school handles things differently. For those hungry to start sooner or stay in the country, they choose their own paths of least resistance. Doubtful everyone understands the legalities of each of these, but I'd guesstimate half the teachers in this country have done some "transition time visas" at some points in their lives here, particularly in the past 18 months. The Kitas well dried up post-JIS. Starting to flow again, but still trickling...choose your poison - mom's couch or a half-ass visa for awhile. Sucks that was the reality for many, but here we are in the post Apocalypse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 512
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, people need to be aware of the situation where schools will put them on the wrong visa which could lead to big problems.....I remember my 2nd job here-working for a christian school in North Jakarta-made the trip to Singapore and was issued a kitas within a month of signing.....only months later did a friend point out that what I was working on was a kind of christian missionary kitas-that didn't enable me to actually 'teach' within a school... Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: patience and knowledge... Reply with quote

Kaptain_Kampung wrote:
If you need a quick fix job, Cambodia hires quick and painlessly. Work there while waiting out an Indo Kitas. As far as SEA goes, it's still the wild west there, probably the last bastion of old school quicky ESL jobs. Trendier spots like Thailand, Vietnam, and even China are taking longer these days and their visa processes are becoming more convoluted too. Not as ridiculous as Indonesia, but no longer a snap either...

This is generally true. However, for China, once all the required documents (including health check, CBC, etc) are received by the school, processing time for docs to apply for the (proper) visa were, in my case, about five to six weeks, which seems to be pretty normal for the country as a whole and is about the same as it was five years ago. Requirements have increased, but processing times have stayed about the same. Meanwhile, I know that a teacher who is waiting for IMTA and vITAS processing for a position in my former (Indonesian) school has been "sleeping on Mom's couch" for at least the last three months or so, with no apparent end in sight ... a frustrating experience, to be sure.

Quote:
Flaky backpackers are a thing of the past here... and on the bright side, the system really does weed out the riff-raff teacher wannabes and just nets the over-qualified indo lovers, and that's probably who you'd rather work with anyway.

I believe it has started to do that, in the last two years or so. No doubt that some of the "riffraff" have been getting the message one way or another. One such individual who was employed by my former school and had managed to hang around Indonesia from one job to another for ten years or more, was "terminated" by the school (well, his contract and KITAS were, anyway). I don't know if he has managed since to secure another job in Indonesia, but the new rules and closer inspection of "foreign resources" should make it more difficult for him and others like him. (I might qualify as a "teacher wannabe" myself, but at least I'm not "riff-raff"). Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
markustm



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:39 am    Post subject: Visa Conundrum Reply with quote

Indonesia is probably one of the hardest countries in Asia to get a work permit right now, and generally this must be putting off people from applying for work in Indonesia, despite the fact the market for English Teachers is potentially huge.

Looking at other South- East Asian countries, the visa situation has tightened over the last few years too, and you cant simply walk into a school and start work immediately, like in the past.

Times have changed, with probably the exception of countries like Cambodia which usually only offer paid hourly work anyway.

My take on this is that an English School can be a booming business, except the cost of an expatriates work visa simply means that either a school ups the costs of a course, which then excludes many potential students or hires local teachers instead.

It makes studying English with an expatriate teacher a luxury, and in turn the student expectations become much greater too.

Perhaps, one day the cost of the work visa might change, and the rules become more flexible and we might see many more English schools open up for business, again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rupiah is still steadily going up (or down). I project it will be up to 15000 in November. It's already gone up 70% from an all time low in 2011.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rayman



Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Weathering a Storm Reply with quote

markustm wrote:
during Indonesia's worse crisis in 1998, the rupiah dropped from 2.500 to the dollar, to 25.000, but bounced back to 5500 at the end of the year. Time will tell, if its the same, in the next few years.


It was at Rp2436 on July 11, 1997. It then reached a high of Rp16650 in June, 1998. 4 months later in October, it was back to Rp8000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:26 am    Post subject: Re: Weathering a Storm Reply with quote

rayman wrote:
markustm wrote:
during Indonesia's worse crisis in 1998, the rupiah dropped from 2.500 to the dollar, to 25.000, but bounced back to 5500 at the end of the year. Time will tell, if its the same, in the next few years.


It was at Rp2436 on July 11, 1997. It then reached a high of Rp16650 in June, 1998. 4 months later in October, it was back to Rp8000.


You are entirely right, Rayman. The lowest ever was Rp16650. Rp25,000 to the dollar quite simply never happened.

The last few years have seen an extended period of weakness that is without parallel. It has stayed below Rp10,000 to the dollar for around 4 years now, which suggests it is the new normal. Indeed, the rupiah has steadily worsened since 2011. It has drifted from around Rp8,500, which was about average from 1998-2011, to 11,000, 12,000, 13,000 and now beyond Rp14,000 and still falling. The rupiah is now the weakest it has ever been over a protracted period, and it is still being heavily supported at the current low rate.

There was an interesting story in the Jakarta Globe a couple of days ago which said that many Indonesian companies would be unable to pay their debts if it went beyond Rp15,000 for long. That's why the government is heavily supporting the rupiah. But it has now gone as far out at Rp14,350 a few times, so they are fighting an uphill battle. Most people think it will reach Rp15,000 before Christmas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rayman



Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You are entirely right, Rayman. The lowest ever was Rp16650.


A former landlady of mine bought 3 apartments in Kuningan for relative peanuts with USD savings she had during the crisis in 1998. A nice way to make 600% profit in the space of 12 months.

It's looking as though another such opportunity may arise in the not too distant future. Sock away your USD.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Indonesia All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10, 11  Next
Page 9 of 11

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China