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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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 Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| sparks wrote: |
Yes, yes, but it is important to stay up-to-date. How can you comment accurately on all of the advances in pierogi-making technology and methods for teaching the present perfect if you're not here living it man?  |
You joke, but the ELT environment in PL has changed a good deal in the last 5-10 years.
Schools that used to be great to work for are now going down the tubes, and the opposite is true too. Salaries have gone up. People who might not have considered coming to Poland 10 years ago are now packing their bags and sending off CV's.
Eventually, people who have worked in Poland but moved on lose touch the reality of what it is like to work and earn a living here. I think it's really odd how the people who post the most sweeping generalizations about Poland ELT are guys who haven't lived or worked here in several years. |
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dragonpiwo
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1650
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:58 am Post subject: erm |
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I live in Poland as do dozens of my friends. There is a huge disconnect on this forum between the Warsaw bunch and everyone else. Warsaw seems to be awash with work and you can earn top rates. Still, I wouldn't want to live in any European capital city on 2 thousand quid a month tops, net. I lived in Warsaw and it wasn't my cup of tea. The vast majority of TEFL teachers in Poland don't live there. Most of them work for the chain schools. Those who've been there a while top up with privates and proofreading etc. 'Bell school still owes me money' is no surprise. Not getting paid correctly or late and getting dicked is so commonplace in TEFL Polska it's barely worth a raised eyebrow. I've been underpaid on 4 occasions there myself. It didn't change my life but it was an embuggerance. All my friends there have similar stories. It's good Delph has made a go of it in Poznan and Ecocks, despite his visa issues has found demand up in Gdansk. I'd point out that the former has no kids and doesn't drink and the latter made it in another line long before. I think for those staying long-term and planning to settle down and have kids, it's a road peppered with potholes to paraphrase a Polish proverb and that's why the road to the Middle East is well-travelled by Polish vets.
Will I teach there again? Only when I've saved enough doing what I do that the TEFL job is a hobby to give me beer money. In Poznan and its surroundings, the chain schools have been lowering rates or raising the number of minutes that constitutes a teaching hour. Yep, you can go the YL route but that's not for me at all. If I'd wanted to do that, I'd have joined the cast of Rainbow or Sesame Street.....or even the muppets. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: erm |
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| dragonpiwo wrote: |
| I live in Poland as do dozens of my friends. |
And how many of those friends have genuinely developed a career with qualifications, responsibility and so on?
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| There is a huge disconnect on this forum between the Warsaw bunch and everyone else. Warsaw seems to be awash with work and you can earn top rates. |
There's work elsewhere if you're willing to go where the market is. In my case, specialising in dealing with children with emotional problems has paid off well. It's not for everyone, and it requires the ability to talk with many different people in the Polish language, as well as understanding fairly complicated paperwork - but there are also barely any foreigners able to work in such an environment.
It means that I'm also bombarded with requests for private lessons. I haven't accepted one offer yet, as the condition of cooperation requires parents to understand that if a child has problems, then it's a slow and painful road that also requires financial commitment as well as a commitment from the parents that they understand that there's no quick and simple fix.
An example - I have one child that I work with that was terrified of men. I mean - positively frightened to the point where she would cry and hide in the toilet. Two months later and after a lot of work - she now trusts me and has less problems with other male teachers. But at the end of the day, most "teachers" have no understanding or training in this area.
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| I'd point out that the former has no kids and doesn't drink |
I drink, just not to excess anymore. I have way too much responsibility to want to spend Saturday or Sunday mornings lying in bed with a rotten hangover. As for kids, they're on their way and I don't see any issue with finances.
I guess I could be called a normal boring adult. Works for me.
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| In Poznan and its surroundings, the chain schools have been lowering rates or raising the number of minutes that constitutes a teaching hour. Yep, you can go the YL route but that's not for me at all. If I'd wanted to do that, I'd have joined the cast of Rainbow or Sesame Street.....or even the muppets. |
The YL route is where the money is at the end of the day. |
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dragonpiwo
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1650
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: erm |
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| Good luck with that. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:08 am Post subject: Re: erm |
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| delphian-domine wrote: |
| The YL route is where the money is at the end of the day. |
Absolutely. Long gone are the days when you can fill up your teaching schedule with up-int 1 and FCE adult groups. I mean, you probably could manage it in Warsaw, but you would seriously limit your earning potential. Even teaching business Eng. pales in comparison to teaching YLs.
I'd never imagined myself as a teacher of children, but now that I'm doing it some of my favorite classes are YLs - especially 9-11 year-olds.
You're a muppet if you don't do at least some YL teaching in PL, IMO. |
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sparks
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 632
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| I don't teach kids. I did for years, have a master's in Ed. Not TESOL. I realized that it's absolutely not for me. It took a good long while for this to sink in but now that it has life is much better. Only adults, most are int. or above. Schedule is full from morning to evening. I could live fine with just day classes but am money hungry so also teach in the eve'. Teaching kids well, really takes a lot--a lot of prep, a lot of stress, more than just rolling up and doing some stuff. Delph seems to get this. The adult route is much easier |
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Infinite
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Chris78 wrote: |
| the more i read about stuff like this the more i'm starting to think it was a mistake coming here..I've talked to few teachers already and they're all saying it's their last year in poland..most of them are looking into Asia or the Middle east.. |
Just as it is with any profession, although I must admit that the EFL world stands out in this regard, there are good people to work for and those that will use you and discard you as soon as they find someone cheaper. I found it that working for smaller schools usually works out better. Most large schools I'd worked for prior to starting my own were "meat markets" with no regards for contracts or quality.
There are way too many language schools here now, every small town's got one or two... or five, usually ran by people who are either ex-public school teachers, running them exactly the same way as public schools [kids hate those] or people who see an opportunity and jump on the wagon without having an inkling of an idea about teaching... those usually get duped into CALLAN aka Direct Method... [kids hate those too].
If you look long enough, you can definitely find some good schools to work for, usually, if you stay in the circuit long enough the opportunity will present itself. Just as it is with any other job, you can't expect to get the best position at the best school in town on your first try or during your first year. Talk to other teachers, network, put in your hours, make an impression, stand out. |
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Infinite
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
You joke, but the ELT environment in PL has changed a good deal in the last 5-10 years.
Schools that used to be great to work for are now going down the tubes, and the opposite is true too. Salaries have gone up. People who might not have considered coming to Poland 10 years ago are now packing their bags and sending off CV's.
Eventually, people who have worked in Poland but moved on lose touch the reality of what it is like to work and earn a living here. I think it's really odd how the people who post the most sweeping generalizations about Poland ELT are guys who haven't lived or worked here in several years. |
Agreed 100% |
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dragonpiwo
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1650
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:23 pm Post subject: replies |
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Delph-some of those fellas have their own schools, some have done the DOS/ADOS thing, a couple are senior 'lektors', so I think there are a few who have gone/tried to go the career route. Lots have 2 careers really. Few, if any have any financial security and would be screwed if they had to be unemployed for a few months. Very few have a pension and god forbid if sickness arrives, they're completely up the creek.
Infinite-when I see a cat, I call it a cat even when I really want it to be a lion. In general, the students in Poland are great, the pay poor, the cost of living high and the market awash with teachers. Moreover, the locals are really very good these days and very well-qualified. I live there and arrived in 96, so I'm not a doomsday monger commenting on stuff I know nothing about. It's a tough, tough life. Lots of people applying? Lots more people in TEFL mate.
Personally, neither the YL nor the special needs routes are good for me. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: replies |
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| dragonpiwo wrote: |
In general, the students in Poland are great, the pay poor, the cost of living high and the market awash with teachers. Moreover, the locals are really very good these days and very well-qualified. I live there and arrived in 96, so I'm not a doomsday monger commenting on stuff I know nothing about. It's a tough, tough life. Lots of people applying? Lots more people in TEFL mate.
Personally, neither the YL nor the special needs routes are good for me. |
Mate, a lot's changed since 96. When was the last time you worked in PL? 1 decade ago? Longer? What are you basing your generalizations on? A few ads you cherry picked from telf.com? A few well-qualified Polish teachers you met in Libya? Some whinging expats you know in Poz or mediocre school you happened to work for 10 years ago?
I've got my ear to the ground here in Warsaw and I've been here since 2006. I know teachers in half a dozen Polish cities. None of them paint the gloomy portrait you do of teaching in Poland. Most are quite content. The only other 'darksider' on this forum who consistently seems to share your viewpoint si a guy who left Poland several years ago as well. That speaks volumes.
You really should open your eyes and acknowledge what most of the people who live in Poland now are saying on this forum. While we're not calling your Poland TEFL-cat a lion per se, it's at least some kind of bobcat or something. And luckily we're not stuck in the giant sandy cat box where you 'TEFL-lions' choose to hang your hats. |
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scottie1113
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Gdansk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Special needs?I'm not qualified to do that, nor do I want to. YL's? I won't teach children-not my style-but YL's 12+ are great. I love their energy, enthusiasm and their desire to learn.
Call me demented, but I'm the only teacher at my school-the one you all you to dis-who asks for as many YL and teenage classes that they they can throw my way. I love them. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Well, I am American and I did not want to go through the trouble of getting a visa.
I only wanted to teach at the university level. Students are good but pay was not.
I had school loans to pay for. University in the USA is expensive.
I even looked at Bell in Krakow.
Poland is a nice place, but wages are not what I prefer.
My British friend got sick of the British Council in Warsaw and decided
that teaching history at a high school in Sydney was better.
He used to get so down on Poland but I always said it was a good country. |
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gardenbotanical1
Joined: 07 Oct 2013
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:59 am Post subject: |
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For me the point of this thread is really that TEFLers should take sensible precautions when looking for work in Poland. Don't dive into a contract without doing a little research. I believe there is still choice out there, even outside Warsaw, and a little patience while job hunting could save a lot of hassle down the road.
ELS Bell is a great example of a school that can be easily ruled out as a potential employer after a little research and a few PMs. Anybody considering a contract with ELS Bell right now would, in my reckoning, be very foolish. It's not even the fact that the organisation has a bad track record, it's also to do with the fact that their director/owner, Ludka Kotarska, is a heavyweight in EAQUALS. I can't get my head around that, call me what you will but it's simply not a situation that should be tolerated by the tefl community in Poland. Don't give your time, skills and energy, if you can help it, to an unscrupulous employer. Teaching, whatever it is you are teaching, is not a venal profession and we should try not to treat it as such or be treated in such a manner.
We all have our reasons for being in Poland or for having left it. Some are happy there, some aren't or weren't. Fairly normal spectrum of sentiments. The point is, if you are in Poland teaching EFL, do what you can to raise awareness of bad employment practice (and good too) and maybe, just maybe, make it a little better for all of us. |
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dragonpiwo
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1650
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:15 am Post subject: erm |
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OK Shake so what are the hourly/monthly rates at Callan, Profi-Lingua, Bell, Speak Up, Empik, Regent, Lang, UCET (the universities), the high schools, Akcent, Wysla Skola, Berlitz?
I live there old boy. I have hundreds of friends teaching there. I last taught there in 2006. I've been looking into the financial possibility of moving back and trawl Gumtree and the other expat teaching job sites. The wages are dire.
Warsaw is different as I've often said.
I have no problem living in Poland, like you I enjoy the place. I have a large group of Polish friends and a great social life.
The following are just facts.
1. Wages have barely risen. I was making the currently quoted top end in the 90's.
2.Costs have risen a lot.
3.There are many more foreigners there now, many are teachers.
4.The local teachers have improved a lot.
5. Polish beer is poor.
6. The average restaurant is poor.
7. Polish girls are hot, that explains why just about everyone who teaches there is male and 'content'.
8. The doomsday mongers have all buggered off.
9. You can do it, if you work a tonne of hours, which for me kind of defeats the object of TEFL.
10. It gets much harder when kids come along. My kids pram was 2000Zl, his cot 1,500, every box of Lego is 300Zl, the flights home to visit family often extortionate and then there are the clothes. Nowadays, it's the school fees and medicines for his allergies and the obligatory 'kolonjas' (camps), which happen at winter break and twice every summer at 1,500 a pop plus pocket money.
I love the references to sandpits. If you trawl through the posts you'll see that I warn people against taking bad jobs where I am but I have a very good one, well-paid, a few metres from a pristine Med beach, which I go to daily. We have regular BBQ's, the company is mixed and I'm here for short periods of time with lots of hols. I have a stunning, MA qualified working fiancée, a car a flat (soon a house) and enjoy (because I can afford it) the very best Poland has to offer.
For the 5 or 6 people who post rose tinted things on this forum about Poland, there are probably 5 or 6 hundred thinking how the f*** am I going to live on this piddly salary. Let's not even mention the contracts which tie you in to working for just one school. Hard to moonlight in Bydgoszcz innit?
I don't dispute people can be happy. Good luck to them. However, they should come to Poland with eyes wide open. |
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oipivo
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 163
Location: Poland
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