Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Welcome to the shutdown of America!
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Trips



Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear Trip,

Of the shutdown lasts a month, there may be a mass uprising of mobs with flaming torches heading for Congress. Very Happy

Regards,
John


You mean like last time?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12022
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Trip

Last time it didn't last a month - three weeks, it was. That extra week MAY do the trick Very Happy.

Here's something I didn't realize, though:

"From 1976 to present there have been 17 shutdowns and like this shutdown, many were caused by political disagreement. For instance, the government shutdown for 12 days in 1977 over a political fight between the House and the Senate over Medicaid policy."

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/what-happens-when-there-government-shutdown

Regards,
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8607
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

I dunno, I dunno. How hard can it be to sort out deciding how the sick and the needy should be treated? The whole federal government has to shut down because of this? Beyond reason, surely?


Regards

Sasha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12022
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

"Beyond reason, surely?"

No question mark required. Greed can cause very irrational behavior.

The Senate passed Obamacare The House passed Obamacare The President signed Obamacare into law. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of Obamacare. The President was re-elected by people who KNEW he was going to implement Obamacare. Most Democrats don't want the government shut down over Obamacare. Most Republicans don't want the government shut down over Obamacare. Forty Tea Party congress-people want the government shut down over Obamacare.

Result: The government shuts down over Obamacare.

Insanity!!

Regards,
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem is that many feel the federal government has no right to get into this. States should be taking care of the people in their states. The guys in DC can quit borrowing money and let others figure out how to get it done without a huge debt hanging over them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12022
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wangdaning,

" . . . many feel the federal government has no right to get into this."

Umm, how "many" is "many?"

Only One-Third Of Americans Support Repealing, Defunding Or Delaying Obamacare


http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/30/new-poll-only-one-third-of-americans-support-repealing-defunding-or-delaying-obamacare/

States SHOULD BE tasking care of people - but many aren't. It ranges from Massachusetts, which created "RomneyCare" under Mitt (can't you TAStE the irony?) to Texas, where, if you get sick and aren't rich, the best thing you can do is die - fast.

The U.S. stands almost entirely alone among developed nations that lack universal health care.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.gadling.com/media/2007/07/healthcareworldbig.jpg

RomneyCare and ObamaCare

Mitt Romney has gone to great lengths to distance his Massachusetts health plan from the federal law, even giving a PowerPoint presentation to emphasize the differences. But the truth is that there are an awful lot of similarities between the plan he signed in Massachusetts in 2006, often called "RomneyCare," and the one that President Barack Obama signed in 2010, dubbed "ObamaCare."

Both leave in place the major insurance systems: employer-provided insurance, Medicare for seniors and Medicaid for the poor. They seek to reduce the number of uninsured by expanding Medicaid and by offering tax breaks to help moderate income people buy insurance. People are required to buy insurance or pay a penalty, a mechanism called the "individual mandate." And companies that don't offer insurance have to pay fines, with exceptions for small business and a few other cases.

Take the quiz

Are you smart enough to tell the difference between ObamaCare and RomneyCare? Here are 10 descriptions of the plans that we got from the legislation that created the two plans, official summaries, private reports and interviews with experts. See if you know whether each description is for ObamaCare or RomneyCare.

1. "Individuals who are deemed able to afford health insurance but fail to comply are subject to penalties for each month of non-compliance in the tax year ... . The penalties, which will be imposed through the individual’s personal income tax return, shall not exceed 50% of the minimum monthly insurance premium."

2. Employers "who employ 11 or more full-time equivalent employees" and do not make a "fair and reasonable contribution" to their employees' health insurance are required to pay a fine.

3. "Tax credits to make it easier for the middle class to afford insurance will become available for people with income between 100 percent and 400 percent of the poverty line who are not eligible for other affordable coverage."

4. Children and adolescents up to age 18 "whose financial eligibility as determined by the division exceeds 133 per cent but is not more than 300 per cent of the federal poverty level" will be eligible for Medicaid.

5. "Americans who earn less than 133 percent of the poverty level (approximately $14,000 for an individual and $29,000 for a family of four) will be eligible to enroll in Medicaid."

6. A recent poll asked people whether they had a generally favorable or unfavorable view of the health plan. Responses split 41 percent and 41 percent between favoring and not favoring. Another 18 percent said they were undecided.

7. Small businesses qualify for tax credits if they pay for at least half of the workers' health insurance. A small business is defined as having fewer than 25 full-time workers paid average annual wages below $50,000.

8. Experience shows the plan is not significantly going to lower costs. Supporters of the law are actively considering new legislation aimed at cost containment.

9. The plan creates a Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute "to conduct research to provide information about the best available evidence to help patients and their health care providers make more informed decisions."

10. For individuals who make more than $200,000 or couples that make more than $250,000, the plan increases Medicare taxes on wages in 2013 by 0.9 percent and imposes a 3.8 percent tax on investment income.

So how many did you get right? (Answers below)

All 10: You're CBO Gold! You qualify to be an analyst at the Congressional Budget Office!

8-9: Lobbyist Silver! You're good enough to be a health care lobbyist! Watch out, Billy Tauzin!

6-7: Bronze Policy Wonk Circle! You can be a researcher at the Kaiser Family Foundation -- or Ezra Klein!

5-6: Talking Head Honorable Mention. You're good enough for shouting matches on cable news channels!

3-4: Pollster's "don't knows." It's hard to have an opinion when you don't know what's in the plan!

0-2: Chain E-Mail Level. You forward chain e-mails that say the federal health care law puts a tax on real estate. (Pants on Fire, by the way.)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/20/romneycare-and-obamacare-can-you-tell-difference/

Regards,
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trips



Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear Trip

Last time it didn't last a month - three weeks, it was. That extra week MAY do the trick Very Happy.

Here's something I didn't realize, though:

"From 1976 to present there have been 17 shutdowns and like this shutdown, many were caused by political disagreement. For instance, the government shutdown for 12 days in 1977 over a political fight between the House and the Senate over Medicaid policy."

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/what-happens-when-there-government-shutdown

Regards,
John


Yeah that was my next point. Shutdowns are not a big deal. Everyone gets paid. Yawn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12022
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Trip,

It's not a big deal unless you, like many in the US, are living from paycheck to paycheck, are furloughed or working for who knows how long without a salary, and have bills that need to be paid.

WASHINGTON -- "Though much of the coverage of the government shutdown has focused on the drama unfolding in Washington, D.C., the effects are being felt widely across the country.

Less than two full days in, thousands of National Guard members have been furloughed, scientific research has been halted, federal technicians have been forced off the job, and wildlife refuges have been closed.

In Idaho, a rescue mission in search of a missing Boise woman was put on hold because the workers conducting it were furloughed. In Arkansas, more than 85,000 meals for children were endangered because of cuts to nutritional programs. And in Connecticut, 13 Head Start programs serving 320 children were shut down.

Not all of those impacted by the partial closure of the federal government actually work for the federal government.

Michele Sturgeon, a private contractor with the CDC Foundation, was forced to stop her work on rotaviruses and forego a salary because the Center for Disease Control and Prevention supervisor who runs her project was furloughed.

"If my supervisor is not there, there is not work for me to do and I don’t get paid either," she told The Huffington Post. "Being a scientist I don’t get paid that much. I have two bachelor's degrees and a master's degree. I owe in student loans three times what I make. I live paycheck to paycheck. This is not financially stable for me at all."

Nor has the fallout of the shutdown been confined to the United States. Kaitlyn Martin, a Numbered Air Force employee working at Ramstein Air Base in Germany, told The Huffington Post that the staff members who organize emergency travel in her office were furloughed and funds were made "unavailable for travel during the shutdown."

"The problem for us is not that we're out of work," she explained. "Many are still working, though will likely face late paychecks until a resolution is made. The problem is that life goes on, and many of the smaller services which keep things running have been cut off."

In an effort to understand the totality of the damage being inflicted by the government shutdown, The Huffington Post solicited reader feedback and surveyed hundreds of local news outlets in all 50 states. The results of our search -- illustrating a nation under shutdown -- are below."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/02/government-shutdown-damage_n_4031714.html

"Retroactive pay is provided under the bill, but federal workers can't expect paychecks until after the government shutdown ends and Congress reaches a resolution on the budget."

My daughter teaches at Fort Campbell, Ky. She's working, but won"t get paid until the shutdown ends. In the meantime, there are bills to pay, so she's going to have to take out a loan.

I realize that, in all probability, you are not affected by the shutdown, but for a good number it's not a "yawn."

Regards,
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8607
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

The rest of the industrialised world, on whose behalf I speak, can only hope that your country will soon enjoy the benefits of creating a caring, just, and humane society, as reflected in the level of medical services available to all citizens without distinction, as we do.


Best wishes

Sasha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trips



Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear Trip,

It's not a big deal unless you, like many in the US, are living from paycheck to paycheck, are furloughed or working for who knows how long without a salary, and have bills that need to be paid.

WASHINGTON -- "Though much of the coverage of the government shutdown has focused on the drama unfolding in Washington, D.C., the effects are being felt widely across the country.

Less than two full days in, thousands of National Guard members have been furloughed, scientific research has been halted, federal technicians have been forced off the job, and wildlife refuges have been closed.

In Idaho, a rescue mission in search of a missing Boise woman was put on hold because the workers conducting it were furloughed. In Arkansas, more than 85,000 meals for children were endangered because of cuts to nutritional programs. And in Connecticut, 13 Head Start programs serving 320 children were shut down.

Not all of those impacted by the partial closure of the federal government actually work for the federal government.

Michele Sturgeon, a private contractor with the CDC Foundation, was forced to stop her work on rotaviruses and forego a salary because the Center for Disease Control and Prevention supervisor who runs her project was furloughed.

"If my supervisor is not there, there is not work for me to do and I don’t get paid either," she told The Huffington Post. "Being a scientist I don’t get paid that much. I have two bachelor's degrees and a master's degree. I owe in student loans three times what I make. I live paycheck to paycheck. This is not financially stable for me at all."

Nor has the fallout of the shutdown been confined to the United States. Kaitlyn Martin, a Numbered Air Force employee working at Ramstein Air Base in Germany, told The Huffington Post that the staff members who organize emergency travel in her office were furloughed and funds were made "unavailable for travel during the shutdown."

"The problem for us is not that we're out of work," she explained. "Many are still working, though will likely face late paychecks until a resolution is made. The problem is that life goes on, and many of the smaller services which keep things running have been cut off."

In an effort to understand the totality of the damage being inflicted by the government shutdown, The Huffington Post solicited reader feedback and surveyed hundreds of local news outlets in all 50 states. The results of our search -- illustrating a nation under shutdown -- are below."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/02/government-shutdown-damage_n_4031714.html

"Retroactive pay is provided under the bill, but federal workers can't expect paychecks until after the government shutdown ends and Congress reaches a resolution on the budget."

My daughter teaches at Fort Campbell, Ky. She's working, but won"t get paid until the shutdown ends. In the meantime, there are bills to pay, so she's going to have to take out a loan.

I realize that, in all probability, you are not affected by the shutdown, but for a good number it's not a "yawn."

Regards,
John


No no no. If you take a sweet federal gig with all of its perks, you are taking the risk of furlough. No whining allowed. Moreover, furloughed employees are eligible for unemployment assistance, so that takes care of the bills. Then there's the public support from banks, utility companies, credit unions, etc. who have all pledged to be lenient and assist furloughed staff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trips



Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
Dear Johnslat

The rest of the industrialised world, on whose behalf I speak, can only hope that your country will soon enjoy the benefits of creating a caring, just, and humane society, as reflected in the level of medical services available to all citizens without distinction, as we do.


Best wishes

Sasha


Someone is clearly suffering from a case of Aesop's sour grapes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8607
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly not, Trips. But if you wish to believe that, 'tis your inalienable right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wilsonthefarmer



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 152
Location: Riding my black horse

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
The rest of the industrialised world, on whose behalf I speak, can only hope that your country will soon enjoy the benefits of creating a caring, just, and humane society, as reflected in the level of medical services available to all citizens without distinction, as we do.
Best wishes

Sasha

Wait Sasha, do you mean that Russia has a health care system better than the USA?
The World Health Organization says this:
"The Russian Federation, a federal semi-presidential republic, is the largest country in the world and is ranked 130th for its nationalized health care system. However, many people are excluded from the benefits of the Russian health care system because the government requires specific documentation to claim access to medical benefits. Much of Russia is extremely rural, so the residents of those areas receive less medical care due to the few locations near them. In comparison to both Russia and Spain, the United States is somewhere in between as far as land area and population."

"The US has been named the 37th best health care system in the world, which has raised plenty of controversy as the US spends much more of its GDP on medical care than countries with much higher ranked systems. Currently, the American health care system guarantees care to any individual who is in an emergency situation; the country mainly is uses a privatized insurance system with federally funded options such as Medicare and Medicaid for those that cannot afford such plans."

"Amongst these three nations’ health care statistics, it is evident that Russia is a long way from being considered one of the world’s leading health care systems. Even though Russia has more hospitals and doctors than almost any other country in the world (6) and has more higher education graduates than any other European country (1), it has a relatively poor system of medical treatment in place for its people. These two pieces of information would normally lead one to assume that the Russians would be exemplary in health care, what with the abundance of medical personnel and the trend usually being that higher education means longer life expectancy. However, Russia presents somewhat of a paradox as what would be expected isn’t occurring."

http://www.ghjournal.org/jgh-online/spain-russia-and-the-us-a-medical-comparison/

Well, there is a big difference between the number of 130 and 37!

Over to you John! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12022
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Trip,

Who's whining? I don't recall saying my daughter was whining. She's not, although I will admit that she's angry at the 40 idiots causing this useless shutdown.

I used her as an example of how the shutdown IS causing difficulties for some people. If you could care less about then, fine - that's your point-of-view.

Regarding this: " . . .banks, utility companies, credit unions, etc. who have all pledged to be lenient and assist furloughed staff."

I'm not sure where you're getting your info from, but it's certainly not the case that ALL of the above-mentioned are doing that. Some credit unions ARE offering interest-free loans for customers who already belong to such unions, but this by no means true of all credit union As for banks and utility companies, I haven't heard of any of them pledging "to be lenient."

Regards,
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wangdaning wrote:
Problem is that many feel the federal government has no right to get into this. States should be taking care of the people in their states. The guys in DC can quit borrowing money and let others figure out how to get it done without a huge debt hanging over them.


What am I missing here? Why would those concerned with "borrowing money. . .huge debt," etc. want to defund an act that is projected to reduce federal deficits over the next decade? For that matter, where is the logic in spending $2.1 billion (the most conservative estimate) to shut down the government in order to stop a program that will save money--if the "huge debt" is the concern? I simply can't follow the thinking here, and I am a relatively bright person.


"In its May 2013 baseline projections, CBO projected that the insurance coverage provisions of the Affordable Care Act would have a net cost to the federal government of $1,363 billion over the 10-year period from 2014 to 2023. (The ACA includes many other provisions that, on net, will reduce federal budget deficits. Taking the coverage provisions and other provisions together, CBO and JCT estimated that the ACA will reduce deficits over the next decade."

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44465

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 2 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC