Job Discussion Forums

[Mike.Paribello]

First and foremost I would like to say that I have found the cafe an invaluable resource for answering all sorts of the inquiries I've had regarding all the aspects of the ESL profession. The vast majority of replies to posts I have read have been sympathetic, relevant, and genuinely strive to help the person asking the questions, so speaking on behalf of all these troubled souls I say thank you.

With that said, I have however come across several judgmental responses to legitimate questions while combing through the pages of the Newbie forum. I understand that it can be frustrating to repeat oneself time and time again to ignorant newcomers who do not take the time to fully utilize a resource as thorough as this one, but I have to insist when I say I do not fall under this category. I realize that many of the issues of my plight have been discussed to one degree or another in previous posts, and I by no means have disregarded them. I am simply seeking to find consolidated information to my own multi-faceted situation, not have strangers scoff at the naiveté of my questions and thoughts. So without further adieu, here is a synopsis of my pitiful (I am at least aware that the circumstances are bleak) situation.

I am a 23 year old Male who lives with his parents in a suburb 40 minutes north of New York City. I graduated from a reputable state school in 2012 with a bachelors in History, and have since been going through what must be considered a significant quarter-life crisis. I will try to be concise as I feel I am starting to vent. I was a History/Education Major in college but I dropped Education as I was young, foolish, and believed that an Education degree meant that I was destined to live a stagnant life in one school in one town for the rest of my life. Upon graduation I was stunned to discover that I was not qualified for many practical careers (practical being a relevant term to myself) and I had removed any education credentials earlier in my collegiate career.

For the past year + I have substitute taught at local primary and secondary schools, have volunteered teaching children religious education classes, and have realized that I truly do love (and might I mention am damn good at) teaching. I am first generation American with my folks being from Italy, and have always had a natural affinity for those foreign to America. I love to teach, I am exhilarated by multi-cultural interaction, and I take pride in my communication skills, my command of both spoken and written English, and my easygoing extroverted nature. All signs pointed toward ESL teaching, and a few months ago I decided that was the avenue I was going to pursue.

Again I want to apologize for this long winded rant. I just feel each piece of information is somehow relevant to possible solutions that may be suggested. Anyway, herein lies the true meat an potatoes of my conundrum:

1. I recently completed an online TESOL course. The course was a gift for my birthday from a well intended mother. She, and I for that matter were unawares that these online courses were less than reputable. It was not until I did some research that I learned that this is far from an optimal credential to help me on my way to an ESL career. However once I found this out the damage was done, it was paid in full, and I was nearing its completion.

2. Although I am first generation with all Italian ancestry, because my parents were naturalized as American citizens before I was born, they renounced their Italian citizenship and I cannot attain duel citizenship and therefore cannot receive an EU passport, thus limiting my options.

3. It is September 10 so I have in all likelihood missed the hiring seasons for most employers. From what I understand this is not universally the case as some countries and institutions have rolling year round availability for applicants, but again, severely limits my options.

4. My passport has just expired and from what I have gathered it is QUITE the process applying for visas, working papers and the like. Not to mention I have zero experience in dealing with these international matters so however long it usually takes, its safe to assume it will take me a bit longer.

5. I have crippling student debt and financial woes. I am lucky enough not to have to pay rent for living on my parents couch, but my monthly loan payments have taken a significant toll. I have just reorganized my payments so that I pay less per month, but it is only going to bite me in the butt once the interest rates skyrocket after six months or so. (no choice in the matter. I was drowning, am one of five children so could not expect my folks to bail me out, nor should they.) These loan payments, among other bills I am responsible for now that I am a big boy have dried up my bank account, wallet, carefree disposition, etc.

6. Due to my financial situation, I cannot think to go abroad and teach at several places (I understand a country like Czech Republic requires a bank statement with 8K to finance oneself until their employment opportunity begins.) For the same reasons, I cannot think to remove myself from the workforce and take a CELTA or other recognizable EFL classes even if I could find one in my area.

7. perhaps more importantly than number six would be this: Would this path I am dreaming of even be economically feasible? I am not trying to go into ESL teaching to become rich. On the contrary, I have come from somewhat humble surroundings and have zero qualms with "roughing it" and living on a budget others would cringe at. But if I am to go abroad my debt would stay right here in America and accumulate. It just doesn't seem practical to save $800-$1200 and take a CELTA to become a legitimately certified ESL teacher to make $800-$1200 a month (at best) overseas, and expect to pay $400 in monthly loans. my reasons for wishing to teach ESL is to become rich in character and experience, but if it is at the cost of becoming plagued with insurmountable debt the rest of my life which will undoubtedly in turn affect my future wife and children then I must have to reconsider.

I know that their are disreputable institutions and organizations which one must be vigilant for when looking for these jobs abroad, and those may be the only ones who give my resume a second glance. Yet I feel as if I have certain characteristics, attributes, traits which would separate me from my be competition. I am personable, a quick learner, flexible, and dynamic in the classroom. I have little doubt and no reservations as to my abilities as a teacher and I feel as if I can communicate that to an interviewer. But given my situation and these roadblocks I am facing, I may be in need of a good dose of reality.

And I take back what I said in the beginning of my post: If anyone takes the time to read my sob story in full you have every right to laugh and point along with any advice given. I really do welcome blunt responses. Its the reason I signed up and wrote this post. I will try my best to comment on any and all feedback given. No matter what I truly find it uplifting that a community like this exists and is filled with so many kind and good willed hearts.

[Denim-Maniac]

Financial woes could be problematic. If we ignore the CELTA (and some countries or employers dont require it) we still have to consider a number of start-up costs which will include (but maybe not restricted to the following):

New Passport (not sure how much that costs in the US).
A police check (some countries require this prior to visa invite)
A medical health check (as above)
The visa cost itself (normally paid in advance)
Flights to country of choice.
Start-up money (it could be 6 weeks or more until you get paid in-country)
Cash to buy essentials before travel.

I would guess that Europe is out for the reason you already mention, plus wages are too low at entry-level. South America could also be out for low wages at entry-level. That leaves Asia ... which will pay enough to keep on top of your loans ... but getting there and setting up may run into $3000 minumum Id say.

[AGoodStory]

Hello, Mike from New York!

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum. (ETA: oops, I see Denim-Maniac beat me to it!)

Here is the short answer to your post:

Good B.A. + crap TEFL cert + big student loans + no savings = Korea.

Now for the slightly longer version. I'm going to separate your post into two parts: the factual stuff and the subjective emotional coloration. Let's strip away the subjective lens: "pitiful," "bleak," "crippling," "sob story," and so forth. Well, on second thought, we can keep "crippling," because it's probably fairly factual when applied to student debt! But let's set the rest of the woe-is-me stuff aside for the moment, because frankly it's distracting and just a wee bit off-putting.

That leaves some facts, facts that are not particularly unusual among young newcomers to the field: You have an undergraduate degree, an on-line cert, high student loans, and not much (if anything) in savings. Even so, you want to embark upon a career teaching English abroad. The first thing to understand is that many a teacher started off under just these circumstances, gained experience and more desireable qualifications, and lived happily ever after. Well, scratch the "happily ever after" perhaps, but you get the picture. Yes, you can get there from here.

1. So you have an on-line cert, and it isn't the best, but yes, there are places you can get an entry-level job with even this level of "qualification."

2. Totally irrelevant. You don't qualify for Italian citizenship via Jure Sanguinis, so unless you marry a citizen of an EU country, you will not be working in Western Europe. Nor will you be working in Central Europe soon. Got to get those debts paid off first.

3. Yeah. So what? Your options are limited. That doesn't mean you don't have any. Fewer jobs available does not equate to no jobs available. You can start applying now, or you can spend some time gaining a little applicable experience close to home.

4. Good heavens, so renew it already. You may have loans to repay, but, as I understand it, you're not paying rent. If you don't have a current passport, you aren't going anywhere. It's all just fantasy. (And NOBODY had experience with visa applications the first time around.)

5. Yep. This limits your first country to Korea. And, let's see. . .Korea. You can look at Taiwan, Thailand, and China, as well, but with hefty student loans, and limited money to outlay for flights and start-up costs, your best bet is . . . you guessed it. . .Korea.

6. Yeah, well, you already know you can't start off in Czech Republic. Big deal. You can work there later in your career, if you still want to. (And as for CELTA classes in your area--you are 40 minutes away from one of the most ESL-resource-rich cities in the country. There are both CELTA and SIT programs near you.) Location is one problem you do not have.

7. Yes. Read more. Worry less. Choose your first location wisely. (See #5.) Lest you think this is generic advice, some people embarking on a TEFL career need to worry more, not less.

8. Oops, no #8!

I'm going to stop and post this, in case I lose my internet access, which seems as if it might happen any second now. . .

[JoeKing]

Not much to add to the excellent posts of both Denim-Maniac and AGoodStory - Asia is your best bet, and especially Korea for you since most/many employers there are still paying for airfare upfront(though it would not surprise me in the least if they have stopped since I last checked).

But if you choose Korea you had better get crackin', as the processing time may be the longest of any of the relevant countries we are discussing - close to 2 or 3 months minimum if I am not mistaken with the national background check and diploma apostille requirements.

[nomad soul]

As the other posters have pointed out...

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/index.php?sid=15674f1af9d30142ab41799e2f432916

(You'll need to register to participate in the forums.)

[Mike.Paribello]

Denim Maniac and A Good Story I cant thank you enough for the advice and perspective.

Specifically A Good Story. I do sound a bit childish with all those colorful ways of feeling sorry for myself. I will buck up and get cracking on more research into all you have said and again, your input is truly appreciated.

Anyone elses two cents or more from previous repliers is most welcome

[inotu-unotme]

I have to say Korea or China would be best for you money wise.
You stand to make the very most out of Korea.
China $ only falls second to Korea.


You should have your department of State phone number for the apostile department on speed dial so you can hound them constantly about what you need, deadlines, etc.
You will also need to contact the Washington DC department of state for Korea, they will give you prices and payment procedures.
Theres no time to waste with this.
You have much to do if your going to Korea.


As a second, third or fifteenth thing to think about - Chile or even Mexico could be a place to teach.
But, pay attention to the hiring seasons - very important.
And if you should lean towards Chile or Mexico plan to hit the ground running and plan to teach at a school and do private lessons for extra income.


Teaching abroad can be tricky to say the least.
Like any job you have to be motivated.
Nothing is easy.

[BadBeagleBad]

I am going to go in another direction and offer totally different advice. You have been subbing and like it, so my advice would be to look into an alternate means of teacher certification. There are a number of programs that will accept you with a Bachelor's Degree and you become certified with a combination of on the job training and coursework, and get paid to do it. One such program is Teach For America, but many states have their own program. There are a couple of reasons this would be a good path for you, long term. First, you can always work in the US with a state certification, but even more important, being a certified US teacher gives you access to more stable and better paid jobs in regions where ESL jobs might be neither of those, Latin America, for example, if that is an area you would be interested in.

[inotu-unotme]

Yes,

I forgot about the subbing.
I don't know what the pay is for subbing in New York but if your on some type of list for subbing that may be worth it to stick with it.

And ya if theres something like teach for America that would be good to check into.
I think AmeriCorp is still around also - but - you do need reference letters or something from your past instructors.
And AmeriCorp does pay off part of your student loan from what I understand.

Also, its not for everyone but theres PeaceCorps.
They pay off part of your loan depending on how much time you give them.

Florida has a different type of teaching system to, I think they require less to be able to teach with just a BA.
You may wish to check out the details.
There is an official Florida state site with all the requirement info on it.

I have to say if you want to teach abroad you have to really want it.
If someone is doing it just for the money I'd recommend against it.

[spiral78]

inotu-unotme

[Xie Lin]

inotu-unotme wrote:

[BadBeagleBad]

[BadBeagleBad]

[JoeKing]

[inotu-unotme]