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ryanlogic
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 102
Location: USA
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 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:03 am Post subject: Anyone get hired right after earning CELTA cert abroad? |
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Hey guys,
I've been hoping to teach English overseas for a while, and I'm trying to figure out which locations would be best for a total noob.
I am married but we don't have any children and my wife and I really want to get out and see the world. She doesn't have a degree, but I am finishing up two bachelors degrees and I should be done this summer. I've been studying sociology and international relations.
I know I need to get a CELTA certificate in order to be considered for anything decent as a fresh graduate.
What I am trying to figure out is if there is a way to travel to a location and take the CELTA course at that location while hunting for jobs.
This idea popped into my head mainly due to the fact that I would have to travel within the US in order to take a CELTA course anyway. Unfortunately the cities that offer CELTA stateside are very expensive to live in for 30 days so I'm looking at incurring significant expenses to acquire the CELTA cert.
My wife and I are both practicing Muslims. I would like to gain enough experience to land well paying jobs in the Gulf, but a few days worth of discouragement out of the Saudi forum has led me to seek other locations before taking jobs in the Middle East without at least two years experience. Apparently the vast rift between decent jobs and "kill yourself in the morning rather than go to work" kind of jobs is so great that I shouldn't even consider it until I can land a job as a direct hire.
The basics:
We are both American citizens.
I am Caucasian
She is African American (she wears a headscarf)
No children
Basically what I need to get in order to teach where I want is two at least years of experience and a CELTA certificate.
In order to pay for the CELTA it's possible that I would have to sell my car and at that point I better be ready to skip town for good. My current employment situation is basically month to month so I'm trying to figure out to consolidate my plans because I don't want to drag out the CELTA training by having to save an extra 4 grand. I'm trying not to get stuck in the rat race.
If I could sell my car and fly to a location with my wife and take a CELTA course on a visitors visa, while applying for jobs... I'm thinking it might be possible to get hired and just do a visa run after I secured employment and squaring away paperwork in person. I know the procedure is different everywhere, but I'm just trying to figure out if it's too risky to consider or if it would be a well calculated risk.
Is it possible to travel somewhere, let's say like Indonesia, or Morocco (for example) and take the CELTA course and then have a good chance of immediately transitioning into teaching with a reputable company?
I presume that my wife will not be able to teach because she is not qualified but once we are overseas she might be able to find some kind of job to help out... I don't want to rely on that though so any location would have to be one that typically affords teachers enough to live comfortably with a wife.
We are hoping to go to places that would be accessible for Muslims. Meaning, access to Friday prayers, halal meat, and general respect/ acceptance.
Doesn't necessarily have to be a Muslim country, but places like China where displays of religiosity (praying at work during breaks , or attending Friday services) would be looked down upon.
Anything come to mind? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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ryanlogic
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 102
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks,
Although I'm not black and my name isn't Arabic... I suppose that was a helpful thread to link to. Although I'm more concerned with finding places that are accessible for a first job that I could easily bring my wife along. Along with locations that would likely be welcoming and comfortable for a practicing Muslim.
I'm less concerned with missing out on jobs altogether due to blatant racism associated with skin color or the spelling on my name. I'm trying to figure out where I should try to go that will be a comfortable place to live as a Muslim.
Maybe the poster of that thread and I can get a job somewhere together and sing Kumbaya.
We still need to figure out where to go. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Although I'm more concerned with finding places that are accessible for a first job that I could easily bring my wife along. Along with locations that would likely be welcoming and comfortable for a practicing Muslim.
I'm less concerned with missing out on jobs altogether due to blatant racism associated with skin color or the spelling on my name. I'm trying to figure out where I should try to go that will be a comfortable place to live as a Muslim. |
I think you may have unrealistic expectations regarding how many posters around have experienced exactly your situation and can give directly applicable advice.
It's not that common to enter EFL at CELTA level with a non-working spouse trailing along (though some others have done it, of course) and it's not that common for religion to be a primary concern (though it does come up on rare occasions).
This is why nomad and others have consistently referred you to threads and other resources that are partially relevant to your situation.
Turkey seems like the best option from my perspective, in that it's apparently easy to find work at a CELTA level and you can certainly live comfortably there as a muslim, but not sure how feasible it is to support a non-working spouse there. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ryanlogic wrote: |
| I presume that my wife will not be able to teach because she is not qualified but once we are overseas she might be able to find some kind of job to help out... I don't want to rely on that though so any location would have to be one that typically affords teachers enough to live comfortably with a wife. We are hoping to go to places that would be accessible for Muslims. Meaning, access to Friday prayers, halal meat, and general respect/ acceptance. |
| and wrote: |
Although I'm not black and my name isn't Arabic... I suppose that was a helpful thread to link to. Although I'm more concerned with finding places that are accessible for a first job that I could easily bring my wife along. Along with locations that would likely be welcoming and comfortable for a practicing Muslim.
I'm less concerned with missing out on jobs altogether due to blatant racism associated with skin color or the spelling on my name. I'm trying to figure out where I should try to go that will be a comfortable place to live as a Muslim. Maybe the poster of that thread and I can get a job somewhere together and sing Kumbaya. |
I posted that link because you mentioned that your wife is African American; I'm sure you both would rather be in a location where you don't have to contend with blatant racism as a mixed couple and as practicing Muslims. Anyway, Spiral reemphasizes the elephant in the room: Your minimal qualifications will net you entry-level pay, which isn't likely to be enough for the two of you to eke out a basic living if you also plan to sock aside some emergency money/savings. That is, you're hoping for a job that "typically affords teachers enough to live comfortably with a (non-working) wife." Yes, those teaching situations exist---but for teachers who are highly-qualified for the better-paying positions, or both husband and wife get hired as a teaching couple and thus, double the family income. That's not your reality and is something you need to consider very carefully before making any big move abroad.
Rest assured, this is my final contribution to both your threads.
Last edited by nomad soul on Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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teenoso
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 365
Location: south china
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Doesn't necessarily have to be a Muslim country, but places like China where displays of religiosity (praying at work during breaks , or attending Friday services) would be looked down upon. |
Do you mean you would not consider China?
China has a large Muslim population - in my small city there are lots of restaurants owned by Muslims from Western provinces, and in my Uni many foreign students from Islamic countries, and there is a large mosque in the city. Non-Muslim Chinese people seem tolerant. I am sure Unis here have a prayer room and mine has a Muslim canteen that caters for Chinese and foreign Muslim students (among others).
China should be on your list because your qualifications (with or without CELTA) are good enough, and it is possible to live comfortably here with one spouse working and one not (several of my colleagues do this) , and the free provided accommodation is often big enough for a family.
Outside rentals , if you find campus living too cramped or confining, come in around $150-$200 a month. Monthly salary starts around $800. If you have free accommodation , then you may have few heavy monthly expenses. Mine is a small city. But your salary in a bigger city like Shenzhen would be higher.
| Quote: |
| I suppose that was a helpful thread to link to |
why so grudging? |
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wander&teach
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Check out Bilkent University in Ankara. It is in a Muslim part of the world, although they do not promote religion on the campus, even void of prayer rooms, but Mosque's are within walking distance. If you don't have a CELTA they will put you thru the mandatory I-CELT course free of charge (DELTA also) which is grueling with a full work load but lots of teachers do it working around the clock. They like to "mold" you there. Free housing which is very adequate, they support married couples, they hire African Americans all the time so I don't think the racism issue is a problem (no headscarfs in the class but they are all over the campus on the support staff), and you can live like a king & queen if you are a non drinker and a homebody, even with a non working spouse. Save up to 10kUS per year. The only thing you are sorely missing is any relevant experience. You could get a school year under your belt at home and they have been known to look the other way. They hire year round as many teachers (Turkish included) routinely leave because they can't or simply don't want to hack the chaotic Turkish management style in the prep school and there is some new stiff competition for any English speaking teachers from a new Hizmet supported campus that has just had a soft opening this year in Ankara. As for you wife, once she is here there are many elementary, pre-school positions that will hire you cash money with little risk. It's not as difficult as many would make you believe. |
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ryanlogic
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 102
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| wander&teach wrote: |
| Check out Bilkent University in Ankara. It is in a Muslim part of the world, although they do not promote religion on the campus, even void of prayer rooms, but Mosque's are within walking distance. If you don't have a CELTA they will put you thru the mandatory I-CELT course free of charge (DELTA also) which is grueling with a full work load but lots of teachers do it working around the clock. They like to "mold" you there. Free housing which is very adequate, they support married couples, they hire African Americans all the time so I don't think the racism issue is a problem (no headscarfs in the class but they are all over the campus on the support staff), and you can live like a king & queen if you are a non drinker and a homebody, even with a non working spouse. Save up to 10kUS per year. The only thing you are sorely missing is any relevant experience. You could get a school year under your belt at home and they have been known to look the other way. They hire year round as many teachers (Turkish included) routinely leave because they can't or simply don't want to hack the chaotic Turkish management style in the prep school and there is some new stiff competition for any English speaking teachers from a new Hizmet supported campus that has just had a soft opening this year in Ankara. As for you wife, once she is here there are many elementary, pre-school positions that will hire you cash money with little risk. It's not as difficult as many would make you believe. |
Thank you so much. Sounds like a good place.
Do you mean to say that headscarves are banned in the classroom? If so, that is so wildly bizarre to me...Given the fact that Turks are predominately Muslim.
I guess the biggest challenge is getting that initial experience.
My wife would enjoy being able to tutor small children.
I posted in the Turkey forum the other day and I didn't get any response. I was glad to see this post.
Thank you |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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ryanlogic
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 102
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headscarf_controversy_in_Turkey |
So bizarre. I am vaguely aware of the situation there, all kinds of strange stuff.... I just never imagined that hijab would be BANNED. From a Muslim point of view, it's a very oppressive measure. Many muslims would choose not to work, or go to school if it meant uncovering.
Sorry to change the subject.. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Not that bizarre really. Secularism, is all.
For example, a related controversy relates to police and military uniforms in Europe. Should Sikhs, Hindus or Muslims have the right to retain their traditional/religious headdress whilst serving the State? If so, does that affect my rights not to be stopped/arrested by someone promoting values that do not represent me or the laws of my country? A massively thorny issue. One which Ataturk cleaved through, Gordian knot style, when he banned all religious symbolism from state institutions, like the French have done. Incidentally, no Christian or Jewish displays are allowed either... |
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wander&teach
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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As with most things in Turkey, things are no always what they seem. Laws resemble suggestions more than rules and are generally interpreted in dramatically different ways depending on your location.
For example, our local supermarket is all decked out with lights, Santa, a Christmas tree and even a Nativity scene, although I'm not sure they realize what it is. In other regions there are anti Santa Clause groups publicly supported by the towns Mayor that are destroying any Santa symbolism they come upon. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Despite all the tourist bumph proclaiming that Santa was a Turk : ) |
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