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Clarity On Law
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mgawhat



Joined: 15 Jan 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: Clarity On Law Reply with quote

Hello All,

Looking for a clarification on the current law (and relative enforcement) regarding qualifications for language schools in Indonesia. I have read that language schools require an undergrad degree in English Lit in addition to the TEFL/TESOL cert. I have a cert, but my undergrad degree is a BBA.

I'll be moving to Sumatra for my wife's work later this year and want to get confirmation before giving up on language teaching as an option.

Thanks for any info/experience you can share.
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purav1da83



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking for the same thing. Any advice or links to information would be greatly appreciated. Btw I'll update if I can find anything.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 123
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very difficult for anybody to really give you a straightforward reply about this because Indonesia is such a wild and wooly place-when it comes to laws/rules and the implementation of them. This is particularly true of the language schools....for example, in Jakarta, EF still have teachers on a kitas who possess nothing more than an online teaching qualification-no degree, while Wall Street, which now has several branches in the city, absolutely stick to the stipulations regarding qualifications. Why? It has to be about the willingness of the institute to make 'special payments' as it were. There always seems to be 'flexibility' with regards the law here....
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Gajah Oling



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 61
Location: Jawa

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tazz is right, implementation of the "law" in Indonesia is really inconsistent. Corruption is still rampant, which, sadly can help the wayfaring teacher if the school works those channels regularly.

One bit of encouragement I can give you: since you are going to be going anyway, you have a leg up on anyone applying from abroad. Being able to go and stick your head in a school, introduce yourself and demonstrate your abilities in person go a long way. You'll find work.
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mgawhat



Joined: 15 Jan 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the responses guys. I had expected as much given the variety of experiences I've seen in the forums. A good friend's sister has been teaching in and around Bali for a couple years with no bachelor degree, and was recently offered a new contract so my hope is i can find somewhere willing to skirt the official rules.

I have been told by EF in Pekanbaru that they will not consider me, but I'll take your advice and just drop by there and other schools after we're settled.
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tazz wrote:
EF still have teachers on a kitas who possess nothing more than an online teaching qualification-no degree, while Wall Street, which now has several branches in the city, absolutely stick to the stipulations regarding qualifications. Why? It has to be about the willingness of the institute to make 'special payments' as it were. There always seems to be 'flexibility' with regards the law here....


Tazz is completely accurate. There is one horrible new outfit in Jakarta (with 2 branches) called Rumah Bahasa. Unbelievably their entire business model is based around expat teachers working on 30 day tourist visas. Even the "school manager" was on a tourist visa a few months back. The insanity which is the new laws have created is beyond belief.
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jaybet3



Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 45
Location: Indonesia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that being here on the ground will give you a better opportunity than applying from outside Indonesia.

Also, I had one teaching job and my KITAS stated I was a marketing representative. It was in a private high school with little chance of immigration walking in the door.

If you're working at a school with a higher profile (ie: EF, Wall Street, etc.), you better have a KITAS listing you as a teacher or you might be in trouble.

Such is the unpredictable state of teaching here.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 123
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once had a job at a Christian school in North Jakarta where the kitas had me down as a professional missionary.... Smile
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 131
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AIM also has a reputation for only employing teachers with the right qualifications. EF can get people through without them. TBI is the most illegal of the bigger chains. They ask teachers to work on something called a VKU visa. These are business consultant visas and only last 2 months; you can't legally teach on one. But the majority of their remaining expats now teach on them because TBI can't attract qualified teachers. For the desparate only. Obviously.
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BekasiWhistle



Joined: 19 Jul 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Bangkok

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

princesss wrote:
AIM also has a reputation for only employing teachers with the right qualifications. EF can get people through without them. TBI is the most illegal of the bigger chains. They ask teachers to work on something called a VKU visa. These are business consultant visas and only last 2 months; you can't legally teach on one. But the majority of their remaining expats now teach on them because TBI can't attract qualified teachers. For the desparate only. Obviously.


The other big reason to avoid TBI is because of the nasty managers and their black lists. When I worked there they robbed me blind. Didn't pay the promised salary. I went to complain but the grifter school manager threatened to black list me all over Jakarta. They ring around other branches and report you as a "trouble maker". I've heard them pull this on people at a few different branches. You don't want to get mixed up with that nasty bunch for any reason. Just not worth it.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 123
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well since the OP was making 'general' enquiries about the law related to working here legally, and since it's already been established on just about every thread in the last 6 months that TBI is an outfit to avoid- for example, they don't provide legal sponsorship in terms of the Kitas, etc, etc....I don't see the need to use every single thread as an opportunity to vent anger against this company- why can't the contributors who month after month continue with their vendetta against this group just let it rest? So you got burnt working there....you've warned everybody repeatedly about working there.....isn't it time to move on? Confused
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chezal



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest the supposed blacklist is BS. Someone I knew was supposedly put on the blacklist. Yet 2 years after the event the same person's CV was being passed on from TBI head office to all the TBI branches with no mention of them being blacklisted.

The blacklist within international teaching and ESL teaching is word of mouth not a list per say. If you go round repeatedly making a bad reputation for yourself this can follow you as the teaching community is surprisingly small.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 131
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tazz wrote:
Well since the OP was making 'general' enquiries about the law related to working here legally, and since it's already been established on just about every thread in the last 6 months that TBI is an outfit to avoid- for example, they don't provide legal sponsorship in terms of the Kitas, etc, etc....I don't see the need to use every single thread as an opportunity to vent anger against this company- why can't the contributors who month after month continue with their vendetta against this group just let it rest? So you got burnt working there....you've warned everybody repeatedly about working there.....isn't it time to move on? Confused


But it was you Tazz who first mentioned specific schools. I don't think anyone has a vendetta against TBI. This is an emotive word. I know someone who works there and I have no problem with that. But I have been very concerned by stories I heard at some schools about unpaid wages. Not to mention the threats and intimidation. Also people need to know that they still employ lots of illegal teachers. This makes them more likely to be prone to raids from Immigration. Basically these schools are their own worst enemies. If they had played by the rules even a little bit none of these new regulations would have been necessary. Cause and effect.
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MadRiley



Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chezal wrote:
To be honest the supposed blacklist is BS. Someone I knew was supposedly put on the blacklist. Yet 2 years after the event the same person's CV was being passed on from TBI head office to all the TBI branches with no mention of them being blacklisted.

The blacklist within international teaching and ESL teaching is word of mouth not a list per say. If you go round repeatedly making a bad reputation for yourself this can follow you as the teaching community is surprisingly small.


So what you're saying is that TBI does have a blacklist that they threaten people with but they are so disorganized that they can't even monitor it properly? Got it. Not sure if I'm reassured or not!

A black list, I suppose, is only as good as the people who monitor it. If people don't check it, it's good as useless. Also I can easily see how it could be used the wrong way in a small industry like Indonesia. It's more a way of pay back for people who annoy the manager often I'd say.

It's the same in Vietnam basically. You have a whole heap of schools run by people with no management experience. Half the time it's just the person who has hung around longest or in the case of my last school, the guy who played football with the school owner on Saturday mornings. Completely clueless. You get the sense in Vietnam that when managers do reference checks it's no more than how much they liked somebody. There's often little more to it than personality. Let's admit it, it's often a case of pretend managers and pretend teachers. The funny thing is how seriously some people take it.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 123
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of blacklist is being talked about here? One that is the property of the police and immigration? There is no criminal record check in Indonesia so how could this be enforced or adhered to? A blacklist owned and maintained by a language school? EF, or TBI for example? What weight would that carry-outside the institutes themselves? If you get fired from a school or have a falling out with them prior to leaving-they can absolutely cause problems for you with regards getting another job/ kitas-but there is no blacklist....
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