|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Big_H
Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 115
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| That's ok, it was a pretty big post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
teacheratlarge
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 192
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I got what H said. I think both of you agree in essence that at the moment, there is nothing to compel people to run for the hills (yet). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZennoSaji
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 87
Location: Mito, Ibaraki
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks, Pitarou! I'm going to Ibaraki in April, so this will be comforting to everyone I know that's wondering. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
timmytopee
Joined: 18 Nov 2012
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Nothing to worry about…"
Hmm… keep telling yourself this, if it's what makes you feel comfortable… CAESIUM, CORIUM, PLUTONIUM are NOT safe an ANY dosages…
FACT: the Japanese government raised the "allowable exposure" limits after March 11th … what is allowable in Japan is equal to what a nuclear plant worker got prior to 3/11… (background radiation exposure)
Of course, none of this has anything to do with the FOOD. Background radiation measurements vs. "allowable limits" of radiation contamination in the food/water are two different things… as far as radiation exposure (background)… if you think going to the park is the same as working IN A NUCLEAR plant, then you belong in Japan/Fukushima…
The food is a whole other matter that makes things worse/more complicated… this is NOT fear mongering…
FACT: there is NO safe amount of CAESIUM and/or PLUTONIUM to EAT!
Ask yourself, why was the "allowable limit" of radiation in food so much LOWER than the current 100 becquerels per kilo prior to March 11th if it were so safe?
Anyway, wishing you all well and good health… it's a terrible situation for anyone to have to deal with. Praying for the Japanese people and everyone exposed to such dangers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 Here we go again.
| Quote: |
| CAESIUM, CORIUM, PLUTONIUM are NOT safe an ANY dosages… |
From this, I infer that you are an adherent of the Linear No Threshold Model.
By the way, do you know what "CORIUM" is? It's a bit strange to put it in the same list as caesium and plutonium. It's a bit like saying, "FLOUR, PANCAKE MIX, and SUGAR can raise blood sugar levels in ANY AMOUNT". OK, back to the matter at hand.
| Quote: |
| FACT: the Japanese government raised the "allowable exposure" limits after March 11th |
Correct. Well done. You're really on the ball here.
| Quote: |
| FACT: there is NO safe amount of CAESIUM and/or PLUTONIUM to EAT! |
You're repeating yourself, and seem to have completely ignored what the paper tells you. In fact, I'm begin to beginning to wonder whether you read the paper at all. But of course, you must have done, because nobody would be so foolish and arrogant as to make thundering assertions about health effects without first studying the latest, peer-reviewed medical research which has just been put in front of their noses.
In any case, the Linear No Threshold Model is based on the hypothesis that there's no such thing as a 100% safe dose. This isn't proven, but it's a reasonable starting point.
But the LNT also asserts that there is such a thing as a 99.9999% safe dose. And it has been empirically shown that there is such a thing as a dose so low the health effects are undetectable, even across large populations.
And for the people living right next door to the "forbidden" zone, that's usually the kind of dose we're talking about here.* There may be health effects, but they're so small as to be undetectable. So speaking as someone who lives some distance from that zone, I'm not in the least worried about the health effects on me and my family.
If you disagree -- if you think you should bring your radiation exposure down as low as humanly possible -- fine, that's your prerogative. But if you seriously believe that, you should never:
- go to the United States (background level about 1500 μSv / year higher than that of Japan)
- get on an airplane (70 μSv for a transatlantic flight)
- work in a public school in Japan (20 μSv / year from the legally required chest X-rays)
- eat Brazil nuts (2 μSv / oz)
Do you think that makes sense? No? Then maybe you should take a more nuanced approach than just screaming, "FACT: OMG RADIATION NOOOOOO!!!"
----
* A couple of extreme cases (forestry workers, or people who snuck back into the forbidden zone) had annual doses as high as 20,000 μSv. If you took, say, 10,000 people and exposed them to that much radiation year-after-year, the increased cancer rates would be detectable. That's not good, of course, but even in these extreme cases, the vast majority will be fine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
timmytopee
Joined: 18 Nov 2012
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pitarou,
Here's to hoping you are right; seriously.
It's a horrible situation either way…
In case you are wrong, well, you are EXACTLY the kind of person that deserves the outcome you'll get…
So… have a blast, and please eat up! For those of us who would rather err on the side of caution, I guess that means all the more sushi, green tea, mushrooms, Hokkaido Milk, locally caught fish, etc. for you!
May your & your children's health reflect your professed knowledge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| timmytopee wrote: |
| Here's to hoping you are right; seriously. |
Me? Where do I come into this? Here's to hoping the professionals are right.
By which I mean, the people who have devoted their professional lives to measuring and quantifying the risks of ionizing radiation, and who subject their work to peer review before publication. Not the people who scream, "Oh my god. Rads! We're all gonna' get cancer."
| Quote: |
| In case you are wrong, well, you are EXACTLY the kind of person that deserves the outcome you'll get |
I get it. You don't like my condescending attitude. After all, you were just passing on the "FACTs", right?
You clearly have no idea what kind of harm you're causing.
By cherry picking the most frightening-sounding facts (just like the video that started this discussion off) you are contributing to a climate of fear and alarmism. This exaggerated fear has a direct impact on people's lives:
* here's a teacher who was afraid to come to Japan
* here's a teacher who planned to eat only imported food, and drink only bottled water, and was afraid to take a shower
* or scroll up to see the teacher who's moving to Ibaraki
And it makes people sick. I don't have the references to hand, but researchers near Chernobyl found that, for many people living in areas with slight contamination, the stress of worrying about radiation (as measured by increased cortisol levels, psychiatric evaluations, and so on) was causing far more harm to peoples health than the radiation itself. Which makes this bitchy little comeback of yours surprisingly apt:
| Quote: |
| May your & your children's health reflect your professed knowledge. |
I can't shut you up, but I can go some way towards neutralizing the harm you cause by contrasting your ignorance with some peer-reviewed medical research which shows that the risk levels are actually very low. I know you don't like being shown up as ignorant after you've just shared your opinion with the world -- who does? -- but, well, you're the one who's big on FACTs and the fact is you don't know sh|t and the other people reading this need to know that.
(By the way, this is not to say that I don't have my concerns. I do. But they are mostly concerns about the government covering things up or about things getting worse at the stricken plant.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Corium is a catch-all term for the goo that results from a melt-down - fuel rods, zircaloy cladding, melted equipment, the bento box Taro dropped in the fuel pool last week - which becomes lava.
Before you guys get more heated, get your terms straight, okay?
And from all the sources I have seen, it appears that Pitarou's assertion is supported. Here in Japan, we are exposed to radiation the same as, or lower than, some cities in the US, even after the disaster.
I think I suffered more from the air borne dust churned up by the tsunami (coastal factories and warehouses contain who knows what toxic stuff) and the smoke from fires than any nuclear fall out. I had a cough for six months after the disaster. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TokyoLiz wrote: |
| Corium is a catch-all term for the goo that results from a melt-down |
I thought it was a kind of pancake mix.  I'm sorry to hear about your cough.
Personally, the only ill-health I suffered was psychological. I freaked out! I knew (and publicly acknowledge) that the reaction was irrational, but it was outside my voluntary control. In the end, my wife whisked me away to Osaka just to get me to calm down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PO1
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 136
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This may not be on topic, but I feel like every week or so people are telling me I'm going to die by eating something:
Don't eat rice!
Don't eat fish!
Don't eat bananas!
OK, I'll just eat canned ravioli.
Don't eat canned ravioli!
This not connected to the radiation at all either. This is just regular news. Wine is bad for you. Wait, wine is good for you. Drink it!
Those of us that just carry on living in Japan try to stay abreast of the situation, but at the same time we have to eat. Sure, be cautious if that's your thing, but if you're that nervous eating anything, then maybe you should not live here. But almost anywhere you live there are going to be hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, diseases, oil spills, etc. etc. that can kill us. We have to decide in the end what we fear the least and try to handle that. I've actually been in proximity of almost all of things I've listed and I'm still alive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
