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Lose Pounds! Try the 2014 Scottish independence plan
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 873
Location: :)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject: Lose Pounds! Try the 2014 Scottish independence plan Reply with quote

Respect to Sean Connery. Like me, he has no desire to return to Scotland until it achieves independence, although in truth I’ve never even been. The British Commonwealth was a mistake of history that we should be all glad no longer exists. The only “commonwealth” countries outside of the third world today include Canada, Australia, New Zealand and, at a push, South Africa.

As of today, the UK will not allow an independent Scotland to use the UK Pound, and why should it? If Scotland wants to make its tartan bed, it has to lie in it. Vote for Scottish independence by all means, but any Scottish TEFLers preparing for a state-sponsored retirement there might be better off staying “independent” outside of the UK.
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Kofola



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As of today, the UK will not allow an independent Scotland to use the UK Pound


Osbourne has said that as Chancellor he will veto a currency union with Scotland. Countries can use whatever currency they choose.
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1349

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Back to the Future? Reply with quote

"Like me, he has no desire to return to Scotland until it achieves independence, although in truth I’ve never even been." Mmm… It's rather difficult to return somewhere you've never been. Unless you're Marty McFly, I suppose.

The Commonwealth is by no mean defunct:

"The Commonwealth is a voluntary association of 53 independent countries. It is home to 2.2 billion citizens and over 60% of these are under the age of 30. The Commonwealth includes some of the world’s largest, smallest, richest and poorest countries, spanning five regions. Thirty-one of its members are small states, many of them island nations."

http://thecommonwealth.org

Kofola is right. There are, for example, countries outside the EU which use the Euro.

"Four small states have been given a formal right to use the euro, and to mint their own coins, but all other usage has been unofficial outside the eurozone (the EU states who have adopted the euro). With or without an agreement these countries, unlike those in the eurozone, do not participate in the European Central Bank or the Euro Group."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_status_and_usage_of_the_euro#References
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glossing over the commonwealth, which despite a posh website, is still a bunch of third world countries with the exception of the four or so I mentioned, it is hardly good news for an independent Scotland that they would not be allowed to use the pound.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10634697/Scottish-independence-SNP-retribution-plan-over-pound-would-cripple-economy.html

Scotland's only defence seems to be threatening to renege on its part of the UK national debt. The knock on effect would be extremely damaging to every person in Scotland, and it demonstrates how weak and foolish these wannabe independent politicians are. How many other services will Scotland need to set up at great expense to fund this exercise? Independence would lead to good and bad results, but these politicians only focus on and publicise the former. Voters should be made clearly aware of both sides, but this has never been done.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, I dunno. All this talk of freedom, independence etc. and of cost benefits analyses. Makes me wonder...

To be precise it makes me struggle to think of any successful independence movement that was driven by economic concerns alone. The American rebellion had more to do with resentment of high handed political control from London, than it ever had to do with the relatively low taxes imposed, despite later mythologizing. The Irish Free State was formed after a brutal, costly war which left it weakened and impoverished for decades afterwards. The Indians may have put a spinning wheel on their flag as a symbol of economic prosperity, but that was hardly what can be described as what happened after their independence. And as for almost anywhere in Africa...

The point is, in any of the aforementioned colonies independence was seen as a worthy ideal in itself. Worth fighting and dying for if needs be. If this sentiment is lacking in Scotland, and there is more concern over the continued use of the pound, or the price of health services, then that says a lot about the commitment to independence there, and doesn't bode well for an independent Scotland.

We'll see...
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Kofola



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If this sentiment is lacking in Scotland, and there is more concern over the continued use of the pound, or the price of health services, then that says a lot about the commitment to independence there, and doesn't bode well for an independent Scotland.


This is a good point Sasha, but I don't think that for the Scots the economic aspect is the be all and end all. Although any country thinking about going independent does, of course, need to consider currency arrangements etc, I think the economic aspect is a bit of a red herring.

The 'It's the economy stoopid' idea is rolled out at every election, and yet I suspect this is actually not the most important aspect for every voter.

I have been really surprised at the dirtiness of the campaigns so far, particularly the No campaign, (said to be called Project Fear in private) which made me start thinking seriously about what Scottish independence might mean for England, in particular, (the end of Labour as we know it, greater tension between the south east /London and the rest of the country) and I have come to the conclusion that the economic argument is being used to try to influence voters, but really it is the political aspect that worries Osbourne et al. The Tories are no longer the Unionist party they once were - but unionism is still a substantial part of its history, and there may be fears over NI and Wales (the latter has many educational and healthcare policies that are much more similar to Scottish ones than those in NHS England and English education), not to mention problems relating to the future political representation of the north of England.

Technically, the national debt is UK debt and if Scotland left it would not be liable for it, although it could agree to take on a proportion of it. rUK would not be sunk economically if it was left with it. So, I don't think the campaign is about the economics of it. The pound might wobble a bit (although I suspect the end of quantative easing in the US will ultimately have more of an impact), but rUK would be much more significant and powerful so I think the impact would be manageable.

I agree with Hod though that the campaigns are sophisticated and very one-sided and that the media is being played and playing the game itself and it is difficult for voters to maintain a helicopter view.

Quote:
Independence would lead to good and bad results, but these politicians only focus on and publicise the former. Voters should be made clearly aware of both sides, but this has never been done.


The FT is probably the main broadsheet with quality analysis. These charts http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/02/06/scottish-independence-the-30-charts-you-need-to-know/ are particularly interesting. But it's always revealing to compare the no and yes campaigns as well. http://www.yesscotland.net/ http://bettertogether.net/

Should this thread be moved to current affairs?
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: The Commonwealth Reply with quote

Hod overlooks one rather important member of the Commonwealth: The UK.
Hardly a third world country.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and shortly Scotland.

Anyway, it's my fault. I mentioned the commonwealth in my first post, but it's not relevant for this topic.

"Odd" this Pound issue has surfaced now. The UK government along with most of us would have thought of this years ago. It will be interesting and amusing, though, to see the UK's next salvo of scare tactics. With no flippancy intended, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an embargo on Heinz beans from Wigan or introducing a £500 TV licence fee. That sort of propaganda would worry the sort of voter who previously had no interest. How can anyone take politics seriously when you have this pettiness and shortsightedness?
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Scary Reply with quote

Lacking rational arguments, the "No" campaign rests on scare tactics: Scotland won't be able to use the pound, Scotland won't be allowed into the EU, Scotland won't be allowed to (fill in the gap, old boy).
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Kipling



Joined: 13 Mar 2009
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Location: ...Ah Mrs K peel me a grape!!!....and have one yourself!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:41 am    Post subject: Donald where's yer trousers....................... Reply with quote

I am sure Mr Scot47 will be along shortly to clarify matters.


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11701
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Discussions continue. Let us see what 18 September brings. Our Imperial Masters in London are slowly waking up to the fact that things may not work out as they had imagined ! Old Etonians are used to getting things their way !
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reveille! Reveille! Reveille! Reply with quote

Here's hoping Cameron & Co. have a very rude awakening!
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod wrote:




Scotland's only defence seems to be threatening to renege on its part of the UK national debt. The knock on effect would be extremely damaging to every person in Scotland, and it demonstrates how weak and foolish these wannabe independent politicians are.
I wonder what Scotland's credit rating would be? Ah...... not so good probably. It might join the ranks of Greece and Spain.
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koko987



Joined: 02 Feb 2014
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original post has so much wrong with it I don't know where to begin. It's funny how people consider themselves authorities on places they've never actually been. Such as most of the buffoons currently in Westminster, for example.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 873
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the opening poster, I have many faults. Verbosity is not amongst them. I wrote about 100 words, so if you don't know where to begin, why should I know when to end?

The point is not to take this situation too seriously. I feel sympathy for the Scottish citizens who may have to spend generations paying for this nonsense, although this won't affect me or my family. Politicians either side of the border don't do that job to help others. I have even been to Scotland, twice, but a third visit would not change my view.

Feel free to elaborate.
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