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The Current State of the Ukraine
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Dear johnslat,

The NY Times and your critical thinking skills yet again aren’t working at its best and for the best of all.

As convincing as the noise may sound, it’s all about how much closer or farther people get to a war.

To see the fallacies or misguidance should not be so strenuous for such accomplished people like you, although you’ve demonstrated otherwise before.

Even if Vlad is proven guilty in The Ukraine, the spilled blood around the world is on our hands and so pointing our bloody fingers at Kremlin may only result in more corpses on streets.

Appealing to the American Sanctions Team leader, the Jewish Adam Szubin, is foolish and counterproductive to say the least.

I really hope our coming debate yields more than the NY Times or The Ukrainian power that’s done exactly what is currently ongoing in the country’s east.

Respectfully yours,
Joe
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Sirens of Cyprus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wangdaning wrote:
Israel courageously stands up for human rights.


When the UN voted to condemn Russia's invasion and annexation of Crimea, Israel abstained. Why?
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15335

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A deal ?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wonderingjoesmith,

"Appealing to the American Sanctions Team leader, the Jewish Adam Szubin . . ."

How considerate of you to point out the ever so relevant matter of Mr. Szubi's
religion.

By the way, have you read "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?" Fascinating stuff - hope they make it into a movie.

Regards,
John
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear John,

I am glad my pertinence has been enlightening.

The material that you have brought up is truly absorbing; perhaps the Rothschilds are as compelling.

The most compulsive things at the moment aren't just the pressing sanctions but a cut in credit rating against Russia too. How phony do you think credit ratings are?

There ain't no movie which could possibly describe the fraudulent system in the world.

I hope you'll enjoy paying your taxes on the 5 billion dollars just printed for the Ukrainian government that not long ago fought for its recognition on Maidan square.

Respectfully yours,
Joe
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wonderingjoesmith.

I forgot - you probably think "The Protocols of Zion" doesn't belong in the fiction section.

As for my paying taxes, well, freedom ain't free, you know. Very Happy

But then, neither is aggression - how much do you think Putin's little adventure is costing Mother Russia?


Regards,
John
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear john,

"The Protocols of Zion" was born in Russia. Smile

What the freedom costs Russians and us is unparalleled, since we live in different places; how much do you think the US expanding of the numbers of intelligence officers from today in Irag is going to cost us? Challenges of Russians within their latitude vs advantures of Americans around the world is for an interesting debate. Wink

I hope you can see where the "aggression" comes from, because Putin hasn't done nearly as much as our administrations have; not only that we've used our dollars and military might but also our allies and influences beyond any possible scope.

In the meantime, the people of the eastern Ukraine are fighting for what the people in Kiev's Maiden have brawled for; the support Kiev's now getting from the west can by no means be compared to the assistance Russia is offering to its easter Ukrainian compatriots.

Respectfully yours,
Joe
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wonderingjoesmith,

Well, here's an estimate:

"How much will Crimea cost Russia? The costs of annexation are only gradually becoming clear, and it is impossible to determine a specific figure yet. This alone shows that the whole idea of annexing Crimea was an impromptu response to Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych's unexpected ouster rather than the implementation of a carefully prepared plan.

Economists offer varying estimates as to the degree of Crimea's energy and technological dependence on Russia, as well as to the financial burden the peninsula will place on the national budget. Prior to annexation, experts most frequently put the price tag for maintaining and supporting Crimea at $3 billion a year. But that did not factor in the impact Western sanctions would have on the Russian economy.

Russia should consider turning Crimea into a large free economic zone. If successful, Crimea could become for Russia what Hong Kong and Macau are for China.

The first legislative measures for integrating Crimea into the Russian system will cost the state budget almost $1.5 billion alone. In addition, plans call for granting Crimea at least 80 billion rubles ($2.2 billion) in annual subsidies. That figures includes payments to offset the peninsula's budget deficit as well as social benefits for Crimean residents.

What's more, that figure could rise to as much as 150 billion rubles ($4.5 billion) in the near future. Russia might also have to spend another $5 billion soon for construction and repairs to the peninsula's dilapidated infrastructure. In recent years, Crimea was only about 35 percent financially self-sufficient and depended on the rest of Ukraine for assistance, although Kiev never fully fulfilled its financial obligations to Crimea given the sad state of Ukraine's economy.

Russian payments of social benefits for Crimea alone could range from 50 billion to 100 billion rubles ($1.5 billion to $2.9 billion). Ukraine finances pensions from payments that the current workforce makes to the country's Pension Fund. Obviously, the payouts previously allocated for Crimean residents will now remain in Ukraine, and the Russian budget will have to directly finance the pensions for Crimea's 677,000 retirees. Monthly pensions in Crimea average about 6,000 rubles ($168), but Moscow plans to raise them to match the average monthly Russian pension of more than 10,000 rubles ($281). Russia's Defense Ministry is now responsible for paying the pensions of Crimea's 32,400 military retirees. Moscow is additionally saddled with supporting the peninsula's 200,000 state employees and with bringing their monthly salaries up from the current 12,500 rubles ($351) to the Russian average of 30,000 rubles ($842) — at an annual cost of another 42 billion rubles ($1.2 billion) more.

Crimea earns up to $2.5 billion dollars annually from tourism, with 70 percent of those tourists coming from Ukraine. Now that Crimea has been annexed, many of these Ukrainian tourists will probably find other spots to take vacation. Meanwhile, it is unlikely that Russian tourists, who typically demand higher-quality products and services in tourism and other sectors, will fill this gap.

Then, there are the transportation problems. Automobiles and trains must go through Ukraine to reach Crimea, and transportation complications could be an additional barrier to tourism if the political situation within Ukraine remains unstable.

Until now, Crimea received 80 percent of its electricity and 65 percent of its gas from nearby Ukrainian regions, and a large percentage of its water is piped in from the Dnieper River though the North Crimean Canal. Ukraine has already announced its decision to charge market prices for these supplies — that is, if it doesn't decide to blockade Crimea entirely. If Ukraine cuts off electricity, Russia will have to build power lines across the Kerch Strait at a cost of up to $300 million. The needed reconstruction of sea ports would cost an estimated $2 billion to $2.5 billion, and the roads in Crimea require $1.5 billion in upgrades. Airports and train stations also stand in need of repair or reconstruction, and Moscow will have to put up another $1.5 billion to build a bridge across the Kerch Strait to bypass Ukraine. In total, Crimea could end up costing Russia even more than the $50 billion it spent staging the Winter Olympics in Sochi.

If Moscow does not intend to destroy its own economy in a protracted standoff with the outside world, it should seriously consider turning Crimea into a large free economic zone. It could become a testing ground to attract investment and provide a secure legal environment. If successful, Crimea could become for Russia what Hong Kong and Macau are for China. Even with sanctions, Crimea could become an economic haven freed from bureaucratic restrictions — something that is unimaginable in the rest of Russia.

The Russian economy has already fallen into stagnation, with forecasts for this year ranging from a meager 1 percent growth to a 6 percent contraction. But the government has taken no steps to spur business. Instead, the authorities have effectively eliminated the simplified tax system for small businesses.

Rather than implementing measures to stimulate the economy and create free enterprise zones, starting with Crimea, Russian lawmakers spend their days dreaming up absurd bans and restrictions. State Duma deputies are now preparing to equate the organization of illegal rallies with terrorism and to punish offenders with prison terms similar to those given to convicted murderers. They also want to introduce requirements that at least half of all films shown in movie theaters are Russian-made. In addition, lawmakers want to prohibit "false information" against banks.

If that weren't enough, Liberal Democratic Party leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky and others are calling to close all McDonald's in Russia and want to open a second front against Coca-Cola. Politicians are outdoing each other with proposals to ban the dollar and to carry out all foreign trade in rubles to deliberately spite the U.S.

It is now obvious that the Kremlin is incapable of coping adequately with the challenges arising from the confrontation with the outside world over the Crimean annexation. At this point, it is impossible to predict just how deep or widespread Russia's political and economic problems will become. If leaders fail to improve the economy by stimulating growth or to strengthen the legal system by reducing corruption and government bureaucracy, the only thing Russians can expect from Putin's great Crimean conquest is disaster.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/the-high-price-of-crimea/497763.html

Regards,
John
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear john,

I am delighted to see that Crimean and Russian people’s well being has caught your attention; however, I am regretful that you are unable to be the visionary.

You are the one who points to critical thinking skills on forums, and yet you fail to see the issue, which isn’t just the Crimean or Russian people’s prosperous lives, on the table.

Whether Kremlin is able to deal with issues of its people isn’t up to us, any foreign government’s officials or MacDonald’s to decide on, and whether it bans the international currency or not should not matter to us either.

What Russians can look for or not should never be brought forward as a mere propaganda of “disaster”; so, do not make an effort to accomplish another purchase of land after the Alaska, strive to live together with all 7 billion people on Earth regardless political views.

Meanwhile, let's see how the approach of attacking, then asking for help and then attacking Russia again works out for all.

I hope that one day we can learn how to help people unconditionally.

Respectfully yours,
Joe
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

Sadly, your choice of the Moscow Times rather weakens your argument. This worthless rag is well-known in the city for pursuing a rabidly pro-Piggie line. It recycles articles from various US and UK economic publications which attack all things Russian, describes aspects of life in Moscow in the condescending terms only possible by people who don't have much of a grasp of the language, is aimed at rich ex-pats who are not in touch with reality on the ground, and attracts local turncoats who are desperate to be seen as Western. It makes the Exile look like it was a quality publication. Don't believe a word you read in it, especially the prices of the dyevs on the back page.

We have been indulgent of its editorial line for years. But I think we may have to reconsider our generosity of spirit...


With Communist greetings

Sasha
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

Yes, freedom of the press can be so darn irritating. Stop the presses!!!

Regards,
John
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

Freedom of the press does not extend to defamation of character, or libel, surely? In these matters, even the Piggie pressmasters are quick to repress offenders.

In any case, there is not need to worry about other media outlets when you have Pravda and Izvestia.


With Communist greetings

Sasha
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

"Freedom of the press does not extend to defamation of character, or libel, surely?"

So, when is the court date scheduled?

Regards,
John
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15335

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Four Horsemen are not taking a vacation ion the near future.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear Sasha,

"Freedom of the press does not extend to defamation of character, or libel, surely?"

So, when is the court date scheduled?

Regards,
John


Dear Johnslat

Haha! That's a good one! As if anybody ever got justice in a Piggie court! But the court of public opinion is very clear here. Cannot defame the character of a democratically elected Russian leader without making oneself look bad, hic!


With Communist greetings

S
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