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ICEAT
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cultofpersonality



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Nabz

To be fair I don't think your salary is that bad. Could they pay you a bit more...maybe? When I worked for Al Khaleej my base salary was 11,250 with 1500 housing allowance and 500 transport allowance making the package 13,250 in total. This is when I had a BA and a teaching qualification.

I went to the ICEAT Interview and providing I obtain my Masters my offer was 13,250 + 3,312.5 housing allowance and 1000 travel allowance which isn't the end of the world. I'm awaiting other offers though. All together that's 17,562.5 riyals a month which is pretty handy. Not sure if it's the best offer. I also have more than 3 years experience as well.

From what I know of ICEAT, not many companies pay more than they do in regards to Bachelor degree holders. They seem to be a reasonable company to work for. However, King Saud are very anal about certain procedures and this can be annoying. I know a few people who have worked for ICEAT and they were none too impressed with King Saud's procedures.
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Grendal



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 795
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As cult of personality says: 'However, King Saud are very anal about certain procedures.'

Yes they have one class observation per semester, that makes two per year. In addition to that there are the buzz checks and spot checks that have their different objectives. Then you have cultural sensitivity and dress codes to deal with, and finally tardiness is addressed with finger scans. The halls and stairs are monitored by CCTV, so if you move a chair from one class to another you may have a visit by some guys in thobes. Other than that I see nothing wrong with someone working For King Saud University through a contractor. I am still with my contractor and I earn what a master's degree holder earns with my BA Eng. Lit. due to my employee appreciation bonuses and salary increases.

Grendal
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Nabz1236



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: ICEAT Reply with quote

cultofpersonality wrote:
Hello Nabz

To be fair I don't think your salary is that bad. Could they pay you a bit more...maybe? When I worked for Al Khaleej my base salary was 11,250 with 1500 housing allowance and 500 transport allowance making the package 13,250 in total. This is when I had a BA and a teaching qualification.

I went to the ICEAT Interview and providing I obtain my Masters my offer was 13,250 + 3,312.5 housing allowance and 1000 travel allowance which isn't the end of the world. I'm awaiting other offers though. All together that's 17,562.5 riyals a month which is pretty handy. Not sure if it's the best offer. I also have more than 3 years experience as well.

From what I know of ICEAT, not many companies pay more than they do in regards to Bachelor degree holders. They seem to be a reasonable company to work for. However, King Saud are very anal about certain procedures and this can be annoying. I know a few people who have worked for ICEAT and they were none too impressed with King Saud's procedures.


Hi

They are not willing to negotiate on the salary package at all. What has been offered is fixed. I guess its not the worst package to start off with. I do not have any Middle East teaching experience.

So do you PGCE teaching qualification and is your first degree in English or Education related? What are you doing a Masters in? Also have you worked in the Middle East? They have offered you a decent package. Personally I have done the research and compared to Edex who are the leaders in recruitment for the teaching market ICEAT salary overall is better.

So are you thinking of heading over in August 2014?

Cheers
Nabz
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lcanupp1964



Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 315
Location: Jeddah, KSA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also feel the salary quoted to us by poster Nabz is fair based on the information provided, but...

With all due respect to all the fine teachers at KSU, wow... Shocked

I knew about the finger scans, but everything else that was written about what happens at the ELI at KSU (excuse me if I got the name wrong) is..., well..., for me..., crazy. I know myself enough to know that I would have been fired within the first three months if I had to work there. This is a weakness that I'm being honest about and by no means am I being "cute". Cool I envy anybody that can handle the "very anal" (as stated by "Mister Cult") environment at KSU.

The ELI at KAU is very, very different - in a way that makes me feel I can stay as long as I like - they look at things, but they don't go crazy with the things they look at. Compared to KSU, KAU is very chilled.

I think I may have changed my mind about the fairness of the salary before I've even finished this post. Confused
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cultofpersonality



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do feel it's a good package Nabz...considering the housing allowance is a lot of money. I did complete a PGCE and I completed a degree in Media Culture and Communications. I have worked in the Middle East before as well. I will head over in August...with whom I don't know.

To be fair, Imam was the same with fingerprint scanning and classroom observations once a term. I didn't mind all that...it was the staying behind 4hrs after your last lesson that pissed me off. We had no office either. I remember the first semester, they let us go home after our last lesson. Saturdays...1:30pm to 3:20pm...home then Premiership football...I was a winner till they started making us stay till 8pm. I guess with the money we get we can't really complain!
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 3628
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: ICEAT Reply with quote

Nabz1236 wrote:
The wage they have offered me is basic 11750 SR and the travel allowance is 1000SR with an accommodation allowance of 2937 SR. The package in the advertisement was minimum basic 12000 SR travel 1000 SR and 3000 SR for accomodation. There explanantion for the reduced salary was this was last years pay structure and was advertised wrong. This is the new pay structure.

Now I have been reading up on forums and see that this is a relatively poor wage for an expat going to work abroad. I guess I could earn this kind of money here in the UK. I see others have been offered bigger salaries with other companies in the teaching field and outside teaching.

I have a Bachelor of Laws (LLB) degree from a University. I have completed a 120HR TEFL course for teaching English as a foreign language and I am currently doing the Cambridge qualification CELTA. I have got just over 2 years teaching English experience in a college.

and wrote:
They are not willing to negotiate on the salary package at all. What has been offered is fixed. I guess its not the worst package to start off with. I do not have any Middle East teaching experience.

I agree with the other posters that this offer is about right given your unrelated BA and minimal years of experience. Plus, working for a contracting company generally equates to a lower salary and bennies compared to working as a direct hire. Contracting companies are middlemen. They're in the business of making money and aren't likely to negotiate; paying more to the employee means less profit for the company.
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Nabz1236



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

Thanks for your responses.

I tried applying to ELI just out of chance but no luck unfortunately.

I got the rejection email this morning:

"We regret to inform you that you have not been short-listed by the H.R. Department at this time.

We appreciate your interest in our program and wish you success in your future endeavors."

From what I have been told even in direct hire the pay is not much greater its more that you get better job secuirity and the benefits are better for example 2 months vacation.

For me it would be a dream working for ELI in Jeddah but I do not think that will ever happen.

Problem is even if I take this job with ICEAT and get a couple of years Middle East teaching experience under my belt at KSU I will still not meet the entrance requirements at ELI.

They are looking for a MA in TESL or TEFL or they require a BA in English along with a PGCE.

I guess I will have this problem with most top institutes in Saudi when it comes to direct hire.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 3628
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabz1236 wrote:
From what I have been told even in direct hire the pay is not much greater its more that you get better job secuirity and the benefits are better for example 2 months vacation.

It depends on what you consider as "not much greater." A friend of mine (MA in TESOL + 2 years experience in the Mid East) applied to several contracting company ads and one that was direct hire. She ended up taking the direct-hire position which was nearly $700 more a month than what the three contractors had offered.

and wrote:
For me it would be a dream working for ELI in Jeddah but I do not think that will ever happen.

Problem is even if I take this job with ICEAT and get a couple of years Middle East teaching experience under my belt at KSU I will still not meet the entrance requirements at ELI.

They are looking for a MA in TESL or TEFL or they require a BA in English along with a PGCE.

I guess I will have this problem with most top institutes in Saudi when it comes to direct hire.

That's the reality if you want to teach for the better employers in this region.
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Nabz1236



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Direct Hire Reply with quote

Ok i guess $700 is a great deal more.

I guess my only option is at this stage of my life to do an MA in TESOL.

Does anyone know if that is something you can do part time when in Saudi?

Thanks

I have looked into it further and to even get on the MA TESOL programme is quite difficult. I think i am better sticking to agencies unless I get very lucky with a direct hire position.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 3628
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, you'll have time to complete a degree while working. However, be aware that a degree obtained via online/distance studies isn't likely to be accepted by Saudi employers. See "Distance MA TESOLs being refused in the Middle East" (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=100919).
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Grendal



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 795
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Direct Hire Reply with quote

Nabz1236 wrote:
Ok i guess $700 is a great deal more.

I guess my only option is at this stage of my life to do an MA in TESOL.

Does anyone know if that is something you can do part time when in Saudi?

Thanks

I have looked into it further and to even get on the MA TESOL programme is quite difficult. I think i am better sticking to agencies unless I get very lucky with a direct hire position.


You can do a DELTA here. It's module based and catered to your own time requirements, within reason of course. There have been a half a dozen or so teachers that have completed the first module here already.

Grendal
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Grendal



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 795
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Direct Hire Reply with quote

Nabz1236 wrote:
Ok i guess $700 is a great deal more.

I guess my only option is at this stage of my life to do an MA in TESOL.

Does anyone know if that is something you can do part time when in Saudi?

Thanks

I have looked into it further and to even get on the MA TESOL programme is quite difficult. I think i am better sticking to agencies unless I get very lucky with a direct hire position.


You can do a DELTA here. It's module based and catered to your own time requirements, within reason of course. There have been a half a dozen or so teachers that have completed the first module here already.

Grendal
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Grendal



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 795
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Direct Hire Reply with quote

Nabz1236 wrote:
Ok i guess $700 is a great deal more.

I guess my only option is at this stage of my life to do an MA in TESOL.

Does anyone know if that is something you can do part time when in Saudi?

Thanks

I have looked into it further and to even get on the MA TESOL programme is quite difficult. I think i am better sticking to agencies unless I get very lucky with a direct hire position.


You can do a DELTA here. It's module based and catered to your own time requirements, within reason of course. There have been a half a dozen or so teachers that have completed the first module here already.

Grendal
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Grendal



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 795
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To moderator:

Please delete the duplicate posts. Due to a lag in the system it appears that I have accidentally over-posted.

Grendal
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Nabz1236



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

It is interesting you should mention The DELTA as I have been looking into this today.

I contacted the British Council in Saudi who advised to get my CELTA completed get 2 years teaching working experience post CELTA qualification and then contact them.

So i have been advised to accept the position at King Saud University Riyadh with ICEAT or the other option is to apply for the Teacher Training program for 2 years in Cairo with the British Council.

British Council have language centres in Riyadh, Jeddah and Al-Khobar once employed with them you can do a distance learning DELTA course. They cover 50% of costs.

I read up on the distance learning DELTA you have to attend 2 weeks orientation for one of the modules in London.
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