Job Discussion Forums

[JDpushing50]

The Truth About KTDC Group (Dist 1)

Dear MOD EDIT, proud owner of KTDC group IELTS school on Mai Thi Luu St District 1, HCMC

You have violated Vietnamese labor law in the method that you fired me. I have contacted a lawyer and they say my case is sound. And even ìf a court of law would agree that being drunk off duty (while on school grounds but on my day off, with no students around, with no class to teach, and there for just a few minutes -- and not sloppy stupid drunk -- but fully functional and just 'happy') is a gross misconduct (which my lawyer says it's not), you still didn't follow the proper protocol of Vietnamese law in firing me. There are steps to take -- you can't just kick someone out of your building, and fire them so harshly and suddenly:

One thing is for sure, MOD EDIT, during the 10 months I worked for you (and the pay raises and accolades you gave me -- and I still have an email in which you praised me as an excellent teacher), you have fired 3 teachers and 4 staff girls -- quite a large amount considering most of that time you carried a maximum of 4 staff girls and 5 or 6 teachers at any given time.

MOD EDIT you now have a road littered with your mistreatment of people -- some of them good people who did not deserve your wrath.

My goal in writing this, and many more writings to follow on several sites, both Vietnamese and English, is to expose you for what you are.

And I haven't even mentioned the other numerous illegal activities that you and your company partake in. More on that later. Indeed, I am now a disgruntled former employee, but I am true and righteous in everything I say -- no lies, no embellishments. C'mon MOD EDIT, let me have it -- let's get our dirt out in the open. Your dirt is weighed in kilos, mine in grams.

AN OVERVIEW OF VIETNAM LABOR LAW
This article provides a comprehensive introduction to Vietnam labor law, including information on hiring an employee, maintaining the employment relationship, modifying the employment relationship, and terminating the employment contract.
TERMINATING THE EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT
Procedures for Terminating the Agreement
Proper legal grounds must exist in order for an employer to terminate a labor contract with an employee, such as performance issues, prolonged illness, a force majeure event, or winding up of the company. Employers are required to follow a number of statutory steps such as sending a warning letter to employees and/or sending advance written notice regarding the termination of employment to employees within a statutory time limit.
If an employer fails to prove that there are legal grounds for the termination or fails to follow the proper statutory procedure, a termination may be declared wrongful. In the event of a wrongful termination, employers may be required to reinstate the employee, pay their salary for the period that they were not allowed to work, and pay two months of the employee's salary as a penalty for the wrongful termination.

Types of Termination
Employee's Resignation
An employee may resign from his/her job without giving any legitimate reason, so long as the employee gives advance notice to the employer (30 working days for termination of a fixed term labor contract or 45 working days for an indefinite labor contract).

Instant Dismissal is the severest labor disciplinary measure. Employees may be dismissed when they commit an act of gross misconduct such as theft, embezzlement, disclosure of business or technology secrets, or repeatedly commit acts in violation of the employers' work rules or policies. A disciplinary hearing meeting must be held and a number of statutory procedures must be followed.

Termination on Notice
An employer may terminate a labor contract by serving advance notice of 30 working days for termination of a fixed term labor contract or 45 working days for an indefinite labor contract. Note that employers must have proper legal grounds

[tonyjones01]

Why were you drunk on school grounds to begin with? I think that would be cause for termination at any workplace.

[JDpushing50]

Fair enough. I do believe it was foolish of me to do that. But please consider the mitigating circumstances. I intentionally chose 3pm to go in when there are no students around, only staff and teachers. Classes start at 6pm. Secondly, there are two floors. I went only to my floor where my classroom is and a couple other teacher's rooms -- it's quiet on that floor at that time. I went in in good faith to help the new teacher because it was his first day and I needed to dial him in on a few details (because he didn't go to the scheduled meeting the day before) because MOD EDIT had asked me to help him on his courses for that level. And please give me credit for knowing the difference to going to work on a day off a little drunk verses going to teach drunk. C'mon, we know there's a difference there.

I wasn't fall over drunk, I was totally functional. Yes, I made a mistake, but I sincerely feel this deserves a reprimand or another type of punishment -- not a firing. MOD EDIT has fired 3 teachers and 4 staff girls in less that 10 months. He prides himself on calling himself an austere general. He's so strict, that he actually locks the door on students if they come late to his class. he has a well-deserved reputation as a dry, humorless, hard ass -- although a good teacher for those types of students who need militaristic type of discipline for their learning. I think he's a good teacher in delivering IELTS material in his commander and chief style, but he's also a hypocrite, a tax cheat, violated labor law in the way he fired me (and others), and I want to stand up for what I believe is just.

I accept the fact that I made a mistake. I don't accept that I was severely over punished. Especially after MOD EDIT continually praised me for being a solid teacher -- he has just given me a raise from 40 to 45 dollars an hour 10 days prior -- that is by no means easy to get from him. I earned it. I did a lot for the school. I contributed, I performed, I cared, I was dutiful. But he ends up having a take no prisoners, just cut the sack off mentality. I had loyalty to the school and cared. He had absolutely no loyalty to me. I made a mistake but he didn't have to kill me.

And to repeat, he's total hypocrite. I will reveal more of his misdeeds later (can't do it now because I don't want to tip him off), but one thing I'll say again is he commits absolutely rampant tax fraud. All teachers only get 5% tax deducted from their salary. That's because, say for example, you make 60 million in a month, he declares to the tax board that I made 30 million, so I pay only 5% of 30 million and get paid all in cash. How many schools do you know that take only 5% tax of the total pay?

And let's just say my misdeed falls under gross misconduct and is a fairly fireable offense, nonetheless, according to Vietnamese labor law, there are statuary procedures to follow. You can't just kick a guy out of the building, pack up his belongings (without me having a chance to carefully go through all my personal belongings mixed in with KTDC stuff, and fire him). At least that's the way I understand the law but I'll no more after I see some lawyers today and tomorrow.

I was wrong for going to work on my day off drunk. He was more wrong in the way he dealt with it. And he's not a very smart guy by igniting passion in a man like me who feels betrayed and knows a lot of dirt that goes on at that school.

I wonder what the tax board is going to do to him. He really, really has been cooking the books to the extreme. And my pay stubs along with a simple mathematical count of the students enrolled verses the monies he declares is going to get him, I hope , in some big trouble.

Yes, I am a disgruntled former employee, but everything I said is true, accurate, and without embellishment.

I can't justify going into work drunk on my day off, but I hope the mitigating circumstances allows some people to believe that maybe I did really get over punished and it didn't have to be this way.

[mark_in_saigon]

With all due respect, what difference does it make if they follow various steps in removing you? If management decides they no longer want you, is it not time to go? Do you want to work in a place where you no longer have their confidence?

When we decide we no longer want the school, don't we just leave whenever we feel like it without following a bunch of steps?

This is a very unstable environment, we have to always be ready to lose our jobs, our housing, our legal status, our girlfriends, our health, anything. I respectfully suggest that legal action is not the solution for issues like this. My personal solution is just to know these things are always possible and do my best to prepare for the next big surprise.

[kurtz]

Were you drunk when you wrote the subject heading on this thread?

[ExpatLuke]

Drunk before 3:00 PM... ouch.

[Tigerstyleone]

One foreign teacher shows up drunk for work and then all Vietnamese staff thinks we're all going to work under the influence because this is all they see of foreigners.

Be honest with yourself man, and don't try to rationalize it and say you were "functional." That is a denial.

[JDpushing50]

Kurtz -- Sorry I missed the 's' on 'activities.' I trust you don't make typos.

Tiger -- Do you think you'll make a convincing argument by claiming that there aren't different levels of intoxication? You've never seen someone functional after drinking? I did my best to be as forthcoming as possible.

[JDpushing50]

mark_in_saigon -- but wouldn't you agree that sometimes in life there's a time to stand up and fight for what you believe in. I am very passionate about this. I gave my heart and soul to this school and although I made a sizable mistake, In earnest, I feel that I was betrayed -- I guess it's hard to explain or understand what it means at that school to make it to the 45 dollar an hour mark, but I did it, because i earned it, because I worked my ass off and made all the right moves to earn that wage. For me to work that hard, that meant I was dutiful and loyal. But I didn't get the same loyalty in return. We all damn well know that in life the majority of companies have a scaffolded procedure and protocol for employee misconduct. First offenses of my nature would not net a firing by most companies -- I would get a warning, a pay deduction, some other penalty. But the first offense, given the fact that no students nor teaching was involved, I claim that most reasonable managers would have found a way to keep a good employee -- give him at least one more chance. My argument is not that I an innocent, but that the owner broke loyalty, depreciated my contributions, and over punished me. That, in my view, is morally wrong. And apparently, it's also illegal according to Vietnamese labor law.

I am surprised that the gist of the posts so far focus on my drinking, or sarcasm about spelling or my drinking. No one seems to take to heart the passion that I feel; nor the laws that were violated, nor the rampant tax fraud.

[just noel]

OP, JDpushing,

Sorry if I missed it, but do you have a Work Permit?

If not, then you were working illegally.

Did you have a work permit?

[JDpushing50]

just noel,

No, I did not have a work permit. Although I have all my paperwork (I mean all of it) except the criminal background check (beginning Nov 1 local police checks after living here 6 months are no longer enough -- you have to get one from your home country -- and all the notary and authentication processes just like for your degrees). So, that's been a hassle because I did the local police cheek in late December and then was informed by my manager that the laws had changed and iIhad to get one from the states. So, although it's in the works, nonetheless, I have been working at KTDC for 10 months without a work permit (and I'm not the only one).

So, another illegal act by KTDC. How much do you think they'll get fined for that?

[Prof.Gringo]

[mark_in_saigon]

[kurtz]

[Tigerstyleone]