Job Discussion Forums

[billbob]

Over the past few summers I've worked alongside 3 Czech, 1 Hungarian and 1 Bulgarian teacher. In my opinion, any student should be delighted to be taught by any of these (apart from one of the Czechs) great colleagues of mine.

The reaction of some of the group leaders was rather different, however. "How come we come to Britain for an English course and my students don't have a British teacher?"

What does the Dave's Cafe community think about this?

Is it important to staff such centres exclusively with natives? I know that most of these non-natives were better teachers than a few of the natives I've worked with, but those summer schools are strictly commercial ventures, aren't they, so students probably see having a native-born teacher as part of the experience of the package they're buying.

As commercial ventures, do these centres shoot themselves in the foot by perhaps not meeting the students', or more often, their parents' expectations? I've heard that one summer centre recruits 80% of its teachers from Poland, for example.

Is it fair of the students/customers to demand a native-speaker teacher on such courses?

[MsBlackcurrant]

That's interesting. I suppose that with so many East Europeans now working in London and parts of southern England it's inevitable that some will be teaching English. I once taught on a summer course where a German lady was employed to teach the elementary classes. Apparently she was very popular with her students, who were young adults. I've come across a couple of other non-native speakers who were training or starting to work in EFL but I don't know how they got on.

I can understand that some group leaders might be a bit grumpy about it, since they could just as well find a very good non-native EFL teacher at home. But the point of studying in the UK isn't just about the classroom, but about the whole environment. English is all around you. And non-native speakers will be a prominent part of that environment in any medium-sized or large British city.

[Xie Lin]

I think the vast majority of students spending the money to travel to the UK (or one of the other countries where English is L1) to learn English would reasonably expect to be taught by native speakers. Attending a program in a country where English is NOT the native language is another matter--more students may find a non-native speaker perfectly acceptable. But if I traveled to Germany to study German, I would not be happy with a Bulgarian, American, or Spanish (for example) teacher, no matter how well qualified. Ditto if I traveled to Japan to learn Japanese. I suspect students of English would probably see it the same way.

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[artemisia]

I think this issue has come up before. It�s an interesting, ongoing topic because many non native English teachers do work in Britain during the European summer hols. I worked with two non native East European English language teachers in the UK. Both were excellent and their spoken English was of an enviably high standard. With one teacher, I�m not sure if her students knew she wasn�t from an English speaking country. With the other, his students didn�t know initially, but found out. Neither teacher had any problems that I�m aware of and both enjoyed a very good rapport with their classes.

MsBlackcurrant and Xin Lin point out two opposing views, both of which I think are quite accurate.

[MsBlackcurrant]

I once attended a postgrad conference in London for research students in modern languages, and we were told it wasn't unknown for French departments at British universities to hire Germans to teach French. I get the impression that Germans are hired to teach all sorts of things at British universities, including English literature. Most of their students are British, of course, although increasing numbers of students now come from overseas.

When it comes to such advanced linguistic skills I suppose it hardly matters. The reality is that the English language no longer belongs to native speakers of English, which means that increasing numbers of highly proficient English teachers will come from elsewhere. The downside for native speakers is that they'll lose their special aura, and will eventually face much more competition for jobs!! That's globalisation for you; it's both a friend and an enemy!

[artemisia]

[billbob]

Thanks for sharing your ideas, everyone.

[Wilsonthefarmer]

[billbob]

Thanks for your input, Wilson, but can I underline that I started this thread purely in reference to summer centres? The kind of 'lessons in the morning, sports in the afternoon, excursions to places of interest kind of thing.

These learning environments are far removed from the UK mainstrem school system, pre-university courses, mainstream academia, etc. Might it be true that such courses belong more to the travel and tourism industry than that of private education services?

[artemisia]

[billbob]

[quote="artemisia"] Perhaps it comes down to not just who is a native English speaker, but who can be accepted within the community as being British? quote]
Good point. I wonder if some more finicky students might insist on not just a native speaker, but someone from the country where the school is, maybe even a strict RP speaker?

I have no idea of the industry-wide breakdown of natives to non natives at summer schools. When i worked for St Bede's it was purely native, at IH I would say non-natives represented 10-20% of the teaching staff. I have heard from a colleague, however, that one of the Bell schools near Oxford or Cambridge recruits 80% of its teaching staff from Poland.

Are summer centres for the under-18s teaching institutions or package holidays? I still can't make up my mind on this one;)

[GriffinParka]

C'mon, let's stop kidding ourselves here. The bottom line is ... the bottom line.

Non-native teachers are CHEAPER than true Brits, and also LESS HASSLE as they are not aware of their employment rights, or at least less inclined to make waves. This is why shoddy outfits prefer to employ them.

If they really thought that they make better teachers, with their funny accents and lack of understanding of colloquial English, then they would market them as a USP.

Can you imagine it?! "Come to sunny England this summer and be taught by a bunch of Bulgarian / Polish / Hungarian chancers!"

[billbob]

Without getting distracted by asking how many language institutions in the UK can be seen as shoddy (looks like quite a lot of them!), Griffinparker reminded me of something artemisia brought up:

"It's probably also a reflection of the low wages on offer and the refusal of native teachers to accept them."

Have wages always been 'low' at summer schools, and if so, did they suffer a dearth of teachers as natives refused to work for this money, a dearth which was only reversed upon EU enlargement in '04?

Or, did the wider pool of teachers created by EU enlargement mean employers could lower wages?

If natives refuse to accept said lower wages, what are they doing with their time instead? Remember, we're only talking about summer centres here, so anyone who teaches there must either willingly or unwillingly have a couple of months to spare in the summer and, presumably, be gainfully employed somewhere else for the rest of the year.

[Sublime]

[artemisia]

With language exchanges between two people, I imagine most would choose a native speaker for that.