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Foreigners vs locals
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Alien1982



Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Foreigners vs locals Reply with quote

Quick question. We all know that china is a country where the people have a superiority complex when it comes to us.

For instance.

In case of conflict with a foreigner, sense of unity among local people will prevail over the sense of right/wrong.

Which means if a local in china gets into a fist fight with a foreigner for example, other chinese people who just happen to be nearby will start attacking the foreigner as well. Whereas when it's just two chinese people in a fighht over something, most locals would either stand by and watch or just carry on with their business. But in a conflict with a foreigner, the chinese bystanders will usually jump in and help the chinese peraon attack the foreigner no matter who's fault it is.

Is Taiwan very much the same in that respect?
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ncaraway



Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by ncaraway on Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Foreigners vs locals Reply with quote

Alien1982 wrote:
Quick question. We all know that china is a country where the people have a superiority complex when it comes to us.

For instance.

In case of conflict with a foreigner, sense of unity among local people will prevail over the sense of right/wrong.

Which means if a local in china gets into a fist fight with a foreigner for example, other chinese people who just happen to be nearby will start attacking the foreigner as well. Whereas when it's just two chinese people in a fight over something, most locals would either stand by and watch or just carry on with their business. But in a conflict with a foreigner, the chinese bystanders will usually jump in and help the chinese peraon attack the foreigner no matter who's fault it is.


Not necessarily.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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Alien1982



Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:54 am    Post subject: Re: Foreigners vs locals Reply with quote

fat_chris wrote:
Alien1982 wrote:
Quick question. We all know that china is a country where the people have a superiority complex when it comes to us.

For instance.

In case of conflict with a foreigner, sense of unity among local people will prevail over the sense of right/wrong.

Which means if a local in china gets into a fist fight with a foreigner for example, other chinese people who just happen to be nearby will start attacking the foreigner as well. Whereas when it's just two chinese people in a fight over something, most locals would either stand by and watch or just carry on with their business. But in a conflict with a foreigner, the chinese bystanders will usually jump in and help the chinese peraon attack the foreigner no matter who's fault it is.


Not necessarily.

Warm regards,
fat_chris

I can agree with you on one thing. Not every person in china thinks like this. There are those who are more educated. And therefore know better. And certainly there are those who would jump in to break up the fight without taking one side or the other. But the amount that do think like this is overwhelming.

And stories about chinese in a fight with a Foreigner where it started off as a conflict only between the two. Then many other locals out of nowhere came from all other angles and started attacking the foreigner. Even when the other locals who did jump in didn't know who's fault it was.

Here's one example of a story of a foreign mother in a chengdu WalMart with her son. Ended up in a conflict with another chinese. Here was the result.
http://www.gochengdoo.com/en/users/profile/33650/
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: Foreigners vs locals Reply with quote

Alien1982 wrote:
I can agree with you on one thing. Not every person in china thinks like this. There are those who are more educated. And therefore know better. And certainly there are those who would jump in to break up the fight without taking one side or the other. But the amount that do think like this is overwhelming.

And stories about chinese in a fight with a Foreigner where it started off as a conflict only between the two. Then many other locals out of nowhere came from all other angles and started attacking the foreigner. Even when the other locals who did jump in didn't know who's fault it was.

Here's one example of a story of a foreign mother in a chengdu WalMart with her son. Ended up in a conflict with another chinese. Here was the result.
http://www.gochengdoo.com/en/users/profile/33650/


Perhaps--I don't necessarily disagree with you.

Personally, I do my best to stay out of fistfights and disagreements with locals to avoid any unpleasantries.

I am interested in perusing more of these stories regarding these types of incidents.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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Alien1982



Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Foreigners vs locals Reply with quote

fat_chris wrote:
Alien1982 wrote:
I can agree with you on one thing. Not every person in china thinks like this. There are those who are more educated. And therefore know better. And certainly there are those who would jump in to break up the fight without taking one side or the other. But the amount that do think like this is overwhelming.

And stories about chinese in a fight with a Foreigner where it started off as a conflict only between the two. Then many other locals out of nowhere came from all other angles and started attacking the foreigner. Even when the other locals who did jump in didn't know who's fault it was.

Here's one example of a story of a foreign mother in a chengdu WalMart with her son. Ended up in a conflict with another chinese. Here was the result.
http://www.gochengdoo.com/en/users/profile/33650/


Perhaps--I don't necessarily disagree with you.

Personally, I do my best to stay out of fistfights and disagreements with locals to avoid any unpleasantries.

I am interested in perusing more of these stories regarding these types of incidents.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
It's always best to stay out of fistfights no matter where in the world you are. In china especially, most fights between a foreigner and chinese are often at a club. I never go to bars in china.

Before I never imagined that foreigners would be subjected to that. However. After living in china for so long, and getting alot of rejection. Being patronized alot. Locals being apathetic towards me. And the way some locals would react when they saw me with a girl. 3 years of all this led to me starting to wonder if other locals would attack me ramdomly if I ever got into it with a local. I came to the conclusion that locals would respond that way. I did some research and talked with other locals as well as a couple of my trusted chinese friends and it turns out my guess was right.

And yet it took me 3 years to figure that out.

Lucky for me I never ended up in a physical confrontation with anyone.
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:35 am    Post subject: Re: Foreigners vs locals Reply with quote

Alien1982 wrote:
It's always best to stay out of fistfights no matter where in the world you are. In china especially, most fights between a foreigner and chinese are often at a club. I never go to bars in china.


True that. I have since retired from the Mainland bar and club scene. Just not worth it and too many things can easily go wrong in that scene.

Alien1982 wrote:
Before I never imagined that foreigners would be subjected to that. However. After living in china for so long, and getting alot of rejection. Being patronized alot. Locals being apathetic towards me. And the way some locals would react when they saw me with a girl. 3 years of all this led to me starting to wonder if other locals would attack me ramdomly if I ever got into it with a local. I came to the conclusion that locals would respond that way. I did some research and talked with other locals as well as a couple of my trusted chinese friends and it turns out my guess was right.


I'm curious, Alien1982, where did you reside on the Mainland?

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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Alien1982



Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Foreigners vs locals Reply with quote

fat_chris wrote:
Alien1982 wrote:
It's always best to stay out of fistfights no matter where in the world you are. In china especially, most fights between a foreigner and chinese are often at a club. I never go to bars in china.


True that. I have since retired from the Mainland bar and club scene. Just not worth it and too many things can easily go wrong in that scene.

Alien1982 wrote:
Before I never imagined that foreigners would be subjected to that. However. After living in china for so long, and getting alot of rejection. Being patronized alot. Locals being apathetic towards me. And the way some locals would react when they saw me with a girl. 3 years of all this led to me starting to wonder if other locals would attack me ramdomly if I ever got into it with a local. I came to the conclusion that locals would respond that way. I did some research and talked with other locals as well as a couple of my trusted chinese friends and it turns out my guess was right.


I'm curious, Alien1982, where did you reside on the Mainland?

Warm regards,
fat_chris
When talking about Taiwan and China, I like to refer to china as china. I don't like using the term mainland when talking about Taiwan and china. I consider the two countries independent from each other.

But in response to your question, I have been to Sichuan, and Harbin. Cities in Sichuan. Especially spending 6 months in Deyang was hard.
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: Foreigners vs locals Reply with quote

Alien1982 wrote:
When talking about Taiwan and China, I like to refer to china as china. I don't like using the term mainland when talking about Taiwan and china. I consider the two countries independent from each other.

But in response to your question, I have been to Sichuan, and Harbin. Cities in Sichuan. Especially spending 6 months in Deyang was hard.


I do find the Mainland moniker to be useful because I find it to be helpful when distinguishing between the PRC (the Mainland) and Hong Kong and Macau (yes, part of the PRC, but Two Systems, One Country…same not so same and very different different) as well as differentiating between the PRC and the ROC.

Unfortunately, Deyang and Harbin don't seem like the most hospitable of places. Good luck with things in the future!

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait a minute. Stop the presses.

Alien1982, I found a post on dave's from Sunday, September 8, 2013, not more than seven months ago, in which you wrote the following:

Alien1982 wrote:
I never been to China before and I'm thinking about going.


http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=1110588&highlight=#1110588

Six months in Deyang? Three years to figure it out? It doesn't seem to add up.

Also, I have found that these themes of "Chinese vs. foreigner" and "safety issues" are common themes in many (all?) of your posts. Why? It does make you seem slightly paranoid...or having an agenda…or both.

Finally, in your opening sentence in this thread you use the phrase "we all know that…" That really isn't such a commonly used phrase in English writing when making an assertion that we all don't really know.

Care to elaborate?

This isn't the first time that this issue has been brought to the attention of the general public at dave's:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=1127222&highlight=#1127222

You do seem to use a lot of hyperbole and a lot of statements like "I saw on the Internet" in your posts.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad troll!! Bad!!!
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Spelunker



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:28 am    Post subject: deyang? Reply with quote

Quote:
Especially spending 6 months in Deyang was hard


Why? Chengdu is not too far away, I was in Luojiang and would love to go back. Great food, friendly locals, near enough to Chengdu, and not many other foreigners around. Yes you might need to be seriously studying chinese or a masters or something, but there are far more boring and remote places in China. If you think deyang is hard, don't even try some of the smaller cities in Zhejiang then. Rolling Eyes Mad Shocked Very Happy
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phdinfunk



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear a lot of legends, like the story of the girl whose foreign boyfriend was breaking it off with her and cheating with someone. She went to the bathroom and (unbeknownst to the white male) sent a text to her buddy and sat their crying..... Then her Liumang buddies came and beat the crap out of the guy, then left, and there was nothing he could do because he didn't know anyone's identity.

So many problems with this story: (not the least of which is cameras EVERYWHERE in Taipei, to the extent that a bank robbery hasn't gone unsolved here in a long time, or the girl's cell-phone records, or the shouting in the apartment complex, etc...)

In seven years in Taiwan, I've heard at least eleventy billion stories like this one. I don't know why, people seem to get off on them.

My lived experience on the other hand has been that the Taiwanese are EXTREMELY decent, helpful people when it comes to almost any situation.

On top of that, they are extremely understanding and forgiving. I had a buddy get too drunk and literally start humping a girl on a dance floor. I dragged him away and went back, apologized, and bought the girl's BF a drink. I apologized to the management. I was treated like a KING when I went back to that bar..... when the buddy came back the bartender just laughed and was cool.

I've seen Taiwanese friends help each other when they were drunker and nearly as stupid.

Anyways, I don't think you can fault the people here. They're decent, easy to get along with. The older gentlemen are terminally interested in you and will willingly make good friends with you if you have something in common.... and yes, those friendships lead to jobs, nights of drinking and sharing of deep secrets, etc.... You've just got to decide if you have the time for them.

Middle aged people are also easy to hang out with. I like the TaiKe crowd (though I don't chew Binlang) and I find they're courageous, fun, and rough and tumble guys.... I have gone on hikes and such with a few of these guys here in Central Taiwan. I have not yet made FRIENDS with any aboriginals, but they are strike me as even more open, friendly, and honorable (in a way that an American can grok) than most any other Asian groups I've met.
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Ralph Winfield



Joined: 26 Apr 2013
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phdinfunk wrote:
I hear a lot of legends, like the story of the girl whose foreign boyfriend was breaking it off with her and cheating with someone. She went to the bathroom and (unbeknownst to the white male) sent a text to her buddy and sat their crying..... Then her Liumang buddies came and beat the crap out of the guy, then left, and there was nothing he could do because he didn't know anyone's identity.

So many problems with this story: (not the least of which is cameras EVERYWHERE in Taipei, to the extent that a bank robbery hasn't gone unsolved here in a long time, or the girl's cell-phone records, or the shouting in the apartment complex, etc...)

In seven years in Taiwan, I've heard at least eleventy billion stories like this one. I don't know why, people seem to get off on them.

My lived experience on the other hand has been that the Taiwanese are EXTREMELY decent, helpful people when it comes to almost any situation.

On top of that, they are extremely understanding and forgiving. I had a buddy get too drunk and literally start humping a girl on a dance floor. I dragged him away and went back, apologized, and bought the girl's BF a drink. I apologized to the management. I was treated like a KING when I went back to that bar..... when the buddy came back the bartender just laughed and was cool.

I've seen Taiwanese friends help each other when they were drunker and nearly as stupid.

Anyways, I don't think you can fault the people here. They're decent, easy to get along with. The older gentlemen are terminally interested in you and will willingly make good friends with you if you have something in common.... and yes, those friendships lead to jobs, nights of drinking and sharing of deep secrets, etc.... You've just got to decide if you have the time for them.

Middle aged people are also easy to hang out with. I like the TaiKe crowd (though I don't chew Binlang) and I find they're courageous, fun, and rough and tumble guys.... I have gone on hikes and such with a few of these guys here in Central Taiwan. I have not yet made FRIENDS with any aboriginals, but they are strike me as even more open, friendly, and honorable (in a way that an American can grok) than most any other Asian groups I've met.


Thanks for the post.
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Alien1982



Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phdinfunk wrote:
I hear a lot of legends, like the story of the girl whose foreign boyfriend was breaking it off with her and cheating with someone. She went to the bathroom and (unbeknownst to the white male) sent a text to her buddy and sat their crying..... Then her Liumang buddies came and beat the crap out of the guy, then left, and there was nothing he could do because he didn't know anyone's identity.

So many problems with this story: (not the least of which is cameras EVERYWHERE in Taipei, to the extent that a bank robbery hasn't gone unsolved here in a long time, or the girl's cell-phone records, or the shouting in the apartment complex, etc...)

In seven years in Taiwan, I've heard at least eleventy billion stories like this one. I don't know why, people seem to get off on them.
Confirm. The story about the girl crying and her liumang buddies come. That's in Taiwan? Or China?
Spelunker wrote:
Quote:
Especially spending 6 months in Deyang was hard


Why? Chengdu is not too far away, I was in Luojiang and would love to go back. Great food, friendly locals, near enough to Chengdu, and not many other foreigners around. Yes you might need to be seriously studying chinese or a masters or something, but there are far more boring and remote places in China. If you think deyang is hard, don't even try some of the smaller cities in Zhejiang then. Rolling Eyes Mad Shocked Very Happy
This post was mainly meant to discuss the situation of how foreigners in Taiwan are seen when random locals see a foreigner in a fist fight wih a Taiwanese. I only reminded everyone of how it is in china just so they'd know what I'm getting at and therefore wanted to determine if Taiwan was the same way.

My main question was this. How would most Taiwanese locals react if they saw a foreigner in a fist fight with another local? Would they see it no differently than two locals fighting?

I'm not the kind of person who will go start fights. I'm just one who feels I have the right to stand up for myself if someone insulted me, defend myself if someone tried to steal my wallet, or whatever. No different than back home. That's all I was wondering.

If it happens to be a country who's people have a prejudice bias towards us in that respects, I will never go.

But so far, the way phdinfunk explains his buddy hitting on someone's girlfriend and then later forgiven. It definitely seems Taiwanese are at the very least more reasonable.
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