Job Discussion Forums

[Sashadroogie]

Dunno what all you wreckers are grumbling about. Plenty of money to be made. Enough for even the fleshiest of pots. But it involves WORK! So, let's see some quality lessons provided to the honest toilers of the Motherland, eh?!

[coledavis]

I visited another teacher's lesson yesterday. "You will talk!"

[Sashadroogie]

[coledavis]

"But which is the right variant?"

[teacher X]

[coledavis]

Yeah, what do you know? (Although perhaps you mean alternative rather than alternate? Although people these days do seem to use alternate as an alternative version of alternative, but not usually used alternately.)

[teacher X]

[mzuri]

I got that the Russian teacher was presenting x and y as the only correct way. And I got that the students were arguing with the native English speaker that s/he was incorrect.

Again, I assert there is an efficiency in some language matters (certainly not all!) to teach a particular pronunciation or definition. Doing so - especially at the secondary levels - results in an economy of study needed by the student that might be better used to acquire more vocabulary.

Furthermore, I've got to be careful to remember that what I *think* I know about language may be inaccurate. Example: the word "shall." In the U.S., we don't use this word much in daily language, other than a question like "shall we go"? [Do you want to leave?] ... But in technical and legal writing, "shall" is an order - and there is zero ambiguity about that definition.

I used to correct my ELLs when they used the phrase "in this moment" to mean the general concepts "at this time" or "at the moment." Eventually, I understood that "in this moment" seemed to be globally understood by non-native English speakers to mean "at this time" or "at the time." .... I no longer remark on this.

In some non-English speaking countries, I've discovered that the English word "nervous" is universally understood to mean "angry" or "irritated". ... In one country, I learned (after some consternation) that the English word "possibly" means "yes." Such meanings have become entrenched in these countries and thus have become just as legitimate in their colloquial use as American English, British English, Kenyan English, or Indian English, etc. ... To a local teacher or someone with an imminent trip to the U.S., I might point out that these words have different meanings, but it's just an FYI on my part.

Unless it's a bald error, I see little value in engaging in pissing contests with students. So if the local teacher insists on the " 'in" pronunciation for words that end in "ing," then I'm going to respect that, especially since native-English speakers from a number of countries do exactly that. (Indeed, I believe Cutting Edge uses "gonna" as the pronunciation for "going to" phrases.) That doesn't mean I have to use that pronunciation myself, if that's not my norm - and if I'm challenged by students (how great to have such engaged students!) - that's a great opportunity to talk about accents, noting that there is room for flexibility.

[coledavis]

"... just as legitimate in their colloquial use..." Non-native English expressions may be widespread, but assuming that your role as a native speaker is to provide them with authentic English, I'm not sure that ducking out is the right thing to do. If a phrase is not correct in British English, American English and other standard English dialects, then from your point of view, it is not legitimate. I would be inclined to say, 'yes I know a lot of non-natives use it, but it isn't authentic English'.

I do however agree with the point of not over-complicating matters for students at lower linguistic levels.

[mzuri]

[Sashadroogie]

There's a massive difference though between various lects of English in English-speaking countries, and the gibberish that students utter in countries where English is a totally foreign language. Russia being the example here. There is nothing 'authentic' or 'valid' in the inaccuracies that have been referred to here. 'Nervous' does not mean 'angry'; 'possibly' does not mean 'yes' or 'no'; 'variant' does not mean 'option' in any form of 'standard' English I am familiar with. These are clearly L1 errors and would require correction. No matter what the Russian 'methodist' says.

[coledavis]

Thank you Sashadroogie, now I understand what people mean when they say I'm nervous. They also sometimes call me 'emotional'; what does that mean (no, not 'tired and emotional' - well, not often and certainly not in school)?

[Sashadroogie]

Ah, Cole, I'm too intelligent to say...

[mzuri]

Galee, dese fellows give me de chew rouge, sha!

[Sashadroogie]

I'm sure that is authentic in the backwoods of somewhere. But round here we does liking the speakering of the classical the Englisch.